Celibacy

[disgtgyal]

A friend of mine posted a noted on celibacy, and I found it to be very thought provoking, and I agree with the author's position...what are your thoughts on the subject

I received three emails from three different women from three different places around the country on one day last week. All of the emails were concerning the same relationship topic: “Dear Steven, can I be celibate and still be in a relationship?” I have been avoiding this celibacy question for a couple of years now because I don’t want to be the cause of a person going to hell. As a Christian, I know that we are supposed to wait until we are married before having sex. Having said that, I find it necessary to keep it real at all times. All times. When keeping it real, discussion points have to be placed in perspective.

The perspective required here is that of the Average Single Sexually Active Man. Let’s call him Sam. The question at hand is, Will Sam give up having sex for you? After careful assessment of the data collection from my previous field research, I have decided that this topic is much more complicated than it initially seems. You know what? Let’s just talk directly to Sam.

Steven James Dixon: Sam, if you are in a relationship with a woman, does she have to have sex with you in order for you to remain faithful and stay in the relationship?”
Sam: Steven, why would I wait and sacrifice sex when I can just get it from somewhere else?
Steven James Dixon: You are right, you can get sex anywhere, but don’t you want more than that out of your woman? Out of your relationship? Sam: Yeah, I want more, I want those things when I get married, but not when I first meet a woman. When I first meet a woman I am thinking about one thing and one thing only.

Steven James Dixon: But through the processing of that line of thinking you will undoubtedly miss out on some good women.

Sam: True, I am going to miss out on some good women, but all the good women are not celibate. Many good women like sex just as much as I do. Which circles me back to the original question, why would I wait and sacrifice sex when I can just get it from somewhere else? While talking with Sam I started to think maybe we are asking Sam the wrong question.

Steven James Dixon: Sam, you are not waiting or sacrificing sex, you are waiting on that specific woman. Because she is a phenomenal woman. Because that woman who is saving herself for you is special. She is unique. She is principled. She is obviously God fearing. She will be able to pray for you when you are down. She is going to be submissive. Sam: How do I know that she is going to be all that?

Steven James Dixon: You have to stay longer and find out. Sam: No! She has to show me more upfront. If I am going to sacrifice, then I need to know right upfront what I am sacrificing for. If I meet a woman that has not been through your training class there is no way of me knowing if she is worthy of me making that sacrifice.

And now we arrive at the problem identification. Celibate sister, you are not going to like what I have to say right now but it is the truth. If you want Sam, then you are going to have to show Sam your woman. Sexual women are visible to Sam on a daily basis so he will only recognize you if you stand out — If you show him your woman. Celibate sister you are going to have to step your game up. If that man takes you out and spends money on you then you need to be ready to cook him a meal. Not a snack, not dinner, you need to be able to cook him something that is going to make him sit on the couch and rub his belly in a clockwise circular motion. If you want a man, you have to show him your woman.
If he is showing you interest then you cannot wait for him to earn the opportunity to gain more knowledge about your woman. It doesn’t have to be a candle-lit dinner. It can be a get together with friends and your place, where he gets to see how you live, how you decorate, how clean you are, how you can add value to his life. Celibate sisters, it is your responsibility to show the man what your momma taught you. A man is not staying, not sacrificing and definitely not marrying a woman that has not shown him her wife skills. Celibacy is part of your own personal, spiritual walk. No one can walk it with you. Having said all that, if you are celibate you are not supposed to want to date Sam. Sam is average. You are better than that. Disclaimer: I am not implying that a woman belongs in the kitchen and that a man does not cook. Man and woman can share household duties equally. Y’all get on my nerves with that

 

[LoveisYou]

Oh....OK. Um, assuming we want a man like Sam. I want a man who honors God's word, not one with the mindset "I'ma fornicate unless she's willing to cook for me." Admittedly, I'm a bit perturbed....

 

[Guitarhero]

She is going to be submissive. Sam: How do I know that she is going to be all that?

Steven James Dixon: You have to stay longer and find out. Sam: No! She has to show me more upfront. If I am going to sacrifice, then I need to know right upfront what I am sacrificing for. If I meet a woman that has not been through your training class there is no way of me knowing if she is worthy of me making that sacrifice.

And now we arrive at the problem identification. Celibate sister, you are not going to like what I have to say right now but it is the truth. If you want Sam, then you are going to have to show Sam your woman. Sexual women are visible to Sam on a daily basis so he will only recognize you if you stand out — If you show him your woman. Celibate sister you are going to have to step your game up.

Well, seems to me that Sam is not the type of guy that I would ever want. How is he getting his? By openness? No, he's a liar and that's a sin...a compulsive sinner and thus, not a great guy. It's also apparent to me that this type of thinking puts all the pressure on women to be "clean, beautiful, dream, perfect...." ad blech!!! ...while allowing old Sam to be a rooty poot. I could show "my woman" all day long but my virtues reflect on me solely. You cannot change a man. He is what he is, from the jump.

Sounds like an old Greek and Italian saying..."the man is the head and the woman is the neck and she can turn the head in any direction she wants." Um, in my book...what good is a neck if the head is worthless?

 

[disgtgyal]

I agree, but I do feel like women should show themselves in a wifely light. We want our husbands to provide, protect, and lead his family and if he doesn't show those qualities during courtship we (most women) would be hesitant to say "i do" so it's only fair that we show our wifely qualities as well. A man needs something to work with...

 

[Guitarhero]

^^^Something to work with...like what? We're both educated professionals. I handle my finances in a responsible manner, he does as well. I am conscientious and philanthropic, so is he. I am celibate and ....??????????????? He wants me to pretend to be his wife? How would that happen? What would it look like? He's already a cheater. Oh nooooo, I don't want a Sam.

 

[disgtgyal]

Unfortunately a lot of Christian men have "sam's" mentality, and alot of christian women have no problem giving it up to the "right man" and because many christian women choose to compromise the ball is in the man's court, IMO it's why a lot of good christian women are still single. Without even knowing it I showed my bf my wifely qualities, whenever I'm with him I cook and clean and I take care of making sure his needs are met because he loves me unconditionally and supports in every area possible. I know i have a very old- fashioned view of relationships and marriage, but I agree with the author to a certain extent.

 

[tyrablu]

Considering that the author admitted that I as a celibate woman should not be dating Sam cause he is average, what was the point of the article? And I don't believe that cooking for a man is one of the only ways to show him what you are worth. And coming from a woman that doesn't cook, my husband will be a special man to get me in the kitchen

Please feel free to correct me or further explain what the real point was.

 

[Poohbear]

And now we arrive at the problem identification. Celibate sister, you are not going to like what I have to say right now but it is the truth. If you want Sam, then you are going to have to show Sam your woman. Sexual women are visible to Sam on a daily basis so he will only recognize you if you stand out — If you show him your woman. Celibate sister you are going to have to step your game up. If that man takes you out and spends money on you then you need to be ready to cook him a meal. Not a snack, not dinner, you need to be able to cook him something that is going to make him sit on the couch and rub his belly in a clockwise circular motion. If you want a man, you have to show him your woman.
If he is showing you interest then you cannot wait for him to earn the opportunity to gain more knowledge about your woman. It doesn’t have to be a candle-lit dinner. It can be a get together with friends and your place, where he gets to see how you live, how you decorate, how clean you are, how you can add value to his life. Celibate sisters, it is your responsibility to show the man what your momma taught you. A man is not staying, not sacrificing and definitely not marrying a woman that has not shown him her wife skills. Celibacy is part of your own personal, spiritual walk. No one can walk it with you. Having said all that, if you are celibate you are not supposed to want to date Sam. Sam is average. You are better than that. Disclaimer: I am not implying that a woman belongs in the kitchen and that a man does not cook. Man and woman can share household duties equally. Y’all get on my nerves with that

Isn't cooking a "wifely" skill?

Sex isn't the only "wifely" skill.

 

[disgtgyal]

Guitarhero when I say something to work with I mean why should you be "the one" if all you're doing during dating is allowing yourself to be catered to dinner, movies, whatever and you're not meeting any of his needs emotional or otherwise, he's going to leave. Think of it if you were a man

 

[disgtgyal]

Poohbear it didn't say she does cook, it says she should be able to

 

[Poohbear]

Unfortunately a lot of Christian men have "sam's" mentality, and alot of christian women have no problem giving it up to the "right man" and because many christian women choose to compromise the ball is in the man's court, IMO it's why a lot of good christian women are still single. Without even knowing it I showed my bf my wifely qualities, whenever I'm with him I cook and clean and I take care of making sure his needs are met because he loves me unconditionally and supports in every area possible. I know i have a very old- fashioned view of relationships and marriage, but I agree with the author to a certain extent.

disgtgyal - Isn't old-fashion the opposite of the bolded? Old-fashion is NOT showing your wifely duties before marriage.

I know my mother didn't do a daggone thing for my dad before they got married. Same thing for my uncles and aunts who are married.

And to top it off, is showing him your wifely duties making him want to marry you any time sooner? How long have you two been together and when do you two plan on getting married?

 

[LoveisYou]

I'm not interested in showing a man like Sam anything, lol

 

[LoveisYou]

So we are supposed to be trying to win men like Sam (those wallowing in sin) our wifely qualities, while he sits there and wallow in sin....? One who willingly fornicates unless a woman shows him her wifely qualities? See that's why we really have to go back to the Word....because I can't think of a scripture that supports his argument.

 

[Poohbear]

Poohbear it didn't say she does cook, it says she should be able to

Okay, I see it now. It was somewhat tricky reading it because the sentence was an "if-then" sentence. It started off with "If that man takes you out and spends money on you then you need to be ready to cook him a meal". I think of the first "If" part of that sentence as something happening currently now. Therefore, the "then" part would have to happen soon after that man takes you out and spends money on you. I don't know. Maybe I was thinking too much.

 

[Guitarhero]

@Guitarhero when I say something to work with I mean why should you be "the one" if all you're doing during dating is allowing yourself to be catered to dinner, movies, whatever and you're not meeting any of his needs emotional or otherwise, he's going to leave. Think of it if you were a man

If I were a man (I took the psychological test, I am exactly 1/2), I would want a woman who could hold her own. But when I married her, I would work my darndest to take care of her because she will be the mother of my children and I would want the best for my family. You have 2 single people dating. Who's to say his emotional needs and otherwise aren't being met if I don't act like a "virgin-vamp-bettycrocker-nun-marilyn monroe on stillettoes" while he acts like a little boy? Sam is not a man and he's not a gentleman. He's a male. Lot's of dating couples progress in their relationship and cook for each other. There's so much more to the relationship and marriage vetting process than catering to such a beast. I wouldn't want his stupid type. After awhile, folks don't even spend that much money on dates if they are serious...they just hang out. shrugs. In essence, Sam can't have the cookie and he can't bake the cookie elsewhere and be with me cuz I'll remove the cookie sheet, period! I do not do rooty poot. I'd start dating his friend

Hey wait a minute. His needs? What about YOUR needs? I'm not satisfied with eating out...I can cook gourmet. Movies? DVD or Netflix at home. Where's the intellectual conversation? What does he do in the way of philanthropy? Is he continually educating himself? He can't give me anything I can get on my own, including that. There's always the hand.

 

[disgtgyal]

@ poohbear when I say old fashioned, I mean taking care of my man. Your mom and aunts are of a different generation and things were very different then.

The fact is women feel like they should have to do anything for their man until he puts a ring on it, when in reality most men even Godly ones aren't doing so without knowing you can be a good wife. We can say we don't want a man like sam but the truth is sam is the average christian man. My question is would it kill us ladies to cater to our men as they are taking care of us. We're not providing pre- marital sex (which i agree with) we're not cooking, cleaning, or catering to them in any fashion, what are we contributing to the relationship, allowing them to be in our presence, come on...

 

[Poohbear]

@ poohbear when I say old fashioned, I mean taking care of my man. Your mom and aunts are of a different generation and things were very different then.

The fact is women feel like they should have to do anything for their man until he puts a ring on it, when in reality most men even Godly ones aren't doing so without knowing you can be a good wife. We can say we don't want a man like sam but the truth is sam is the average christian man. My question is would it kill us ladies to cater to our men as they are taking care of us. We're not providing pre- marital sex (which i agree with) we're not cooking, cleaning, or catering to them in any fashion, what are we contributing to the relationship, allowing them to be in our presence, come on...

A woman taking care of a man before marriage is not old-fashion though. erplexed

I don't think anyone feels like a woman shouldn't do anything... I can only speak for myself, but I believe that a woman shouldn't have to do wifely duties before marriage. And a man shouldn't have to do husband duties before marriage. And a man shouldn't have to dish out tons of money on food and gifts for the woman before marriage either. I feel like both man and woman should get to know each other before marriage. Simply have conversations, discuss values and desires, spend quality time together, have a good attitude around each other, encourage and enjoy each others time... not all this "wifey" and "hubby" stuff, no providing for each other, no sexing each other, none of that. That should be for marriage.

Edited to Add:
disgtgyal - you forgot to answer these questions: And to top it off, is showing him your wifely duties making him want to marry you any time sooner? How long have you two been together and when do you two plan on getting married?

 

[Guitarhero]

@ poohbear when I say old fashioned, I mean taking care of my man. Your mom and aunts are of a different generation and things were very different then.

The fact is women feel like they should have to do anything for their man until he puts a ring on it, when in reality most men even Godly ones aren't doing so without knowing you can be a good wife. We can say we don't want a man like sam but the truth is sam is the average christian man. My question is would it kill us ladies to cater to our men as they are taking care of us. We're not providing pre- marital sex (which i agree with) we're not cooking, cleaning, or catering to them in any fashion, what are we contributing to the relationship, allowing them to be in our presence, come on...

I don't think you get it...or maybe I'm not getting it? Sam is nasty! What's he providing for me? LOL. I'm not going to be able to "save" Sam. He has to save himself. Let me ask you, do you think that acting like a little wifey and cooking, cleaning, etc. (like, don't single males and females do that already?...not like it's rocket science), taking off his shoes, fixing his plate (we had that thread and it was a riot gurl!!!) is going to make him be CHASTE? Not just celibate? His goal should be chastity and waiting until he marries. So should hers. Do you think you can make a better christian out of Sam by playing housewife? He gets to have much-needed nookie but I gotta wait and he's all joined physically to others and fizzled out by the time I get him? I dunno, OP, I'm scared of Sam. You would date such a guy who has sex on the side while claiming Jesus on Sunday?

 

[disgtgyal]

I agree there is much more to the vetting process for marriage, but my point is we need to show them what we would be like as a wife and they need to show us what we would be like as a husband. Yes I agree that a man wants a woman who can hold her own but a godly man wants a woman who knows how to submit to him and allow him to be the head, he wants you to be able to hold your own in the event he isn't there to lead

 

[Guitarhero]

I agree there is much more to the vetting process for marriage, but my point is we need to show them what we would be like as a wife and they need to show us what we would be like as a husband. Yes I agree that a man wants a woman who can hold her own but a godly man wants a woman who knows how to submit to him and allow him to be the head, he wants you to be able to hold your own in the event he isn't there to lead

After this, I'mma quit...I don't want you to think I'm picking on you and I'm laughing out loud about this Sam (it's all in fun, really). Submit to him? Nah, son, I won't ever do that. We can partner this relationship together or not at all. Sam is already showing me what he'll be like - coming home late and lying he was at the office when he was sexing another, looking at everything sexy that moves in addition to me, daring to suggest I submit to his shenanigans when he's a complete moron . He's going to be a cheater. Then he'll start lying about the finances etc.

I don't have to cook and clean for a guy to show him how good a wife I can be. The virtuous woman...it's the morals first...and all the rest follows within the marriage. As far as him showing gifts and all that, that's not what I want. I don't need to go out every week. You go to a movie, you have little time to talk. If the relationships is serious, you're going to be just hanging out anyway, much like you would married. See what I mean?

 

[disgtgyal]

Guitarhero no, you cannot save sam, but sam is simply asking why should i stay around for you, Sam never said he will cheat on you, he said he will leave because it addition to not having sex with him, you're not doing anything else for him. Playing housewife isn't going to make a man stay, if he wants to go, but if wants to stay, it'll definitely help.

 

[disgtgyal]

After this, I'mma quit...I don't want you to think I'm picking on you and I'm laughing out loud about this Sam (it's all in fun, really). Submit to him? Nah, son, I won't ever do that. We can partner this relationship together or not at all. Sam is already showing me what he'll be like - coming home late and lying he was at the office when he was sexing another, looking at everything sexy that moves in addition to me, daring to suggest I submit to his shenanigans when he's a complete moron . He's going to be a cheater. I don't have to cook and clean for a guy to show him how good a wife I can be. The virtuous woman...it's the morals first...and all the rest follows within the marriage. As far as him showing gifts and all that, that's not what I want. I don't need to go out every week. You go to a movie, you have little time to talk. If the relationships is serious, you're going to be just hanging out anyway, much like you would married. See what I mean?

You can't say you're saving yourself because you're following God but then say I'm not gonna submit to him, you can't pick and choose which part of the bible you will obey, I'm sorry. IMO God isn't going to give you a godly spouse if you don't believe in submission.

 

[Guitarhero]

@Guitarhero no, you cannot save sam, but sam is simply asking why should i stay around for you, Sam never said he will cheat on you, he said he will leave because it addition to not having sex with him, you're not doing anything else for him. Playing housewife isn't going to make a man stay, if he wants to go, but if wants to stay, it'll definitely help.

Ok, I don't comprehend why he can't stop having premarital sex which is fornication. If he can't have the goods before he buys them, then..."tooodaaaalooooooh!" Bye. Next! He ain't doing nuddin' for me neither. Yuck. I don't want a Sam and if he's the average christian guy, I might then marry out. Where the heck is Shimmie? I think she's mad at me...but she could tell you better than I can about why this is all wrong. Thou shalt not commit fornication!!! I kinda fail at that...but well, I get back on the right road.

 

[Renewed1]

LoveisYou your statement is so true.

Opster, yes there are men like Sam out there. But I will not compromise my celibacy or my walk with God (more importantly) for a man that is not God sent. Because God will send the man that will wait until our wedding night.

The thing about relationships is that BOTH PARTIES are displaying what they bring to the table from cooking to money to whatever....it's not just one sided. I'm looking for a man that knows how to cook, clean, balance his checkbook, etc. WHY...because you can't be over the age of 21 and not know how to do these basic life surviving things.

Now, I'm "KEEPING IT REAL" a man like Sam is not a true man of God....for me!! I refuse to believe the millions of Christian men in the WORLD has a Sam mentality. I do understand sex may be more of a struggle for men, for obvious reasons. But it's not impossible to wait. If he's that hot; he better go find his wife with the quickness.

My thing for the celibate women is; you don't need a bunch of guys. You just need that ONE RIGHT GUY!! The one that is your Boaz. Therefore, men like Sam, for me, can go jump in the lake.

So we are supposed to be trying to win men like Sam (those wallowing in sin) our wifely qualities, while he sits there and wallow in sin....? One who willingly fornicates unless a woman shows him her wifely qualities? See that's why we really have to go back to the Word....because I can't think of a scripture that supports his argument.

 

[Guitarhero]

You can't say you're saving yourself because you're following God but then say I'm not gonna submit to him, you can't pick and choose which part of the bible you will obey, I'm sorry. IMO God isn't going to give you a godly spouse if you don't believe in submission.

Oh, yes I can. He's not submitting to Jesus, I ain't submitting to him. Besides, most people do not know what g-dly submission is. We can arrive at decisions together as a couple. I do not submit in that previous way described. Let's just leave this G-d giving me a g-dly spouse on Him solely. At least, I ain't sleeping with Sam. He ain't gonna get the nookie.

 

[Poohbear]

You can't say you're saving yourself because you're following God but then say I'm not gonna submit to him, you can't pick and choose which part of the bible you will obey, I'm sorry. IMO God isn't going to give you a godly spouse if you don't believe in submission.

Submission to a man comes AFTER he marries you.

Before getting married, a man and a woman should treat each other like brothers and sisters in Christ. That's what I meant to say earlier. I know this is a far fetched idea from today's time, but I think relationships would be much more healthier if started off this way.

 

[disgtgyal]

No one is saying you should compromise and sleep with "sam", in fact women compromising is why "sam" is in the position he is in. Those who refuse to believe that many Christian men think like "sam" I suggest you ask a few of your brothers in christ who aren't virgins and who will be completely honest with you. Whether we want to accept it or not, the fact is this mentality is very prevalent among christian males; how many women in this thread are single, celibate, but ready to be in a relationship? Now i'm not saying you should cow-down to any and every christian man that comes your way, but what I'm saying is if you come across one that truly loves you, treats you well, meets your needs, but he struggles with sex, then you need to be mindful of that and show him why you are worth the wait, and meet his other needs that's my point. I don't see why or how that's wrong, and if shimmie can enlighten me i'm open to it

 

[disgtgyal]

I completely agree with you poohbear submission comes after marriage, and God knows our heart so He knows whether we would submit or not. Yes you treat each other like brothers and sisters in Christ, but there in a courting period and I'm sure if he's courting you, you don't want him to behave in the same manner to the other sisters in Christ the way he's behaving towards you

 

[LoveisYou]

No one is saying you should compromise and sleep with "sam", in fact women compromising is why "sam" is in the position he is in. Those who refuse to believe that many Christian men think like "sam" I suggest you ask a few of your brothers in christ who aren't virgins and who will be completely honest with you. Whether we want to accept it or not, the fact is this mentality is very prevalent among christian males; how many women in this thread are single, celibate, but ready to be in a relationship? Now i'm not saying you should cow-down to any and every christian man that comes your way, but what I'm saying is if you come across one that truly loves you, treats you well, meets your needs, but he struggles with sex, then you need to be mindful of that and show him why you are worth the wait, and meet his other needs that's my point. I don't see why or how that's wrong, and if shimmie can enlighten me i'm open to it

So basically Sam isn't personally responsible for his actions it's those compromising woman's fault? Can we really blame others for our disobedience and sin? Is that Biblical? Does the Bible support that?

 

[LoveisYou]

Remember we are called to holiness both men and women, now we are not perfect but let's not use that as an excuse to wallow in sin. Where is Christ in all of this?