Manifested Glory Ministries uploaded a homosexual exorcism video.

[toinette]

sin is a choice. You choose you be around situations where a demon can posses you. you choose not to go to church get yourself saved live right and sheild yourself from possession. When you are covered by the blood of jesus no weapon against you shall prosper.

and again I have to ask how are these gay children making a choice to sin. A choice implies havng various options and the mental faculties to make an informed decision which these kids dont have. a lot of them dont even know what gay is, just that little Jimmy likes little Paul. sometimes its not even a sexual component but more of an affinity towards the same sex at that young age. Even the court of law makes the distinction between someone's mental capacity and state of mind which is why people are allowed to argue diminished capacity or schizophrenics or people with DID who commit a crime during a fugue arent sent to jail but sent to psych wards.

 

[BroadstreetBully]

Well if this is going to turn into a discussion about homosexuality.

How would you all approach this issue if you find out your offspring is homosexual?

 

[MuseofTroy]

In general, I think there's too much of a focus on getting saved (and random details like which day you go to church) so you can go to heaven and not enough of a focus on living right and treating other people well so that we can all live well enough that it would feel like heaven on earth.

I believe that getting saved is the first step in leading a godly life. Once someone is truly saved (mind you there are a bunch of fraud Christians out there who claim to be saved but their life and behavior isn't reflective of that transformation) I believe the fruits of their salvation is shown in their life. Someone who is saved strives to be Christ like in every area of their life. They want to be the very best person God wants them to be. Most people I know who are saved have good lives and true joy. They don't participate in destructive behavior and they approach situations with humility and wisdom.

 

[username12]

In general, I think there's too much of a focus on getting saved (and random details like which day you go to church) so you can go to heaven and not enough of a focus on living right and treating other people well so that we can all live well enough that it would feel like heaven on earth.

Ain't that the truth, won't get an argument outta me. I totally agree.

God warns us about false prophets and those false prophets are working overtime in manipulating the minds of people for their personal gain.

That's why is so important to have a personal relationship with Jesus and pray to Him to give your guidance.

 

[Qualitee]

Your foolish explanation, the fact that you don't know Bible verses or how to adequately interpret them, the fact that you are listening to a "mother" about B.C/early A.D psychology when she has no training tells me all I need to asses this situation about your beliefs.

Dont talk about my mother!

 

[msa]

Help me out here. Be more specific. What constraints are you speaking of? If you make an assertion, please provide evidence to back up your claim. So what are these constraints imposed by God? Is it that humans can't fly? Please be specific. I'm curious about your thought process and why you feel the way you do. Believe it or not you are educating me so that next time I encounter someone with a similar thought process I might provide some meaningful dialogue with them.

We are constrained by the fact that we do not have the same knowledge nor reasoning abilities (based on said knowledge) that God has. God knows what day the world is going to end. Do I? Nope. If I knew it would end tomorrow I'd probably make different choices than if I knew it was going to end in 2097.

We are also constrained by the fact that we were created with the ability to sin. No matter what we have desires that are going to overcome even our best efforts because we were made that way. So when people say that we "choose heaven or hell", I say we don't. We aren't really given the tools to choose heaven, for sure. And we aren't given any tools to avoid hell, for sure.

 

[toinette]

So I allowed for a demon to possess me as a child?

yup..........

So I was more weak minded as a child than other kids were, the demon saw I was an easy target and came for me? Is this what I am to believe is true?

yup..............

wow. just wow

in any case, it seems you may have missed it so I'll ask you again. Can you please point it out for me and the others who are missing it where it says that demonic possession and spirts are what causes people to sin in those verses that you quoted? Thanks

 

[BroadstreetBully]

I believe that getting saved is the first step in leading a godlylife. Once someone is truly saved (mind you there are a bunch of fraud Christians out there who claim to be saved but their life and behavior isn't reflective of that transformation) I believe the fruits of their salvation is shown in their life. Someone who is saved strives to be Christ like in every area of their life. They want to be the very best person God wants them to be. Most people I know who are saved have good lives and true joy. They don't participate in destructive behavior and they approach situations with humility and wisdom.

I have seen this, and I agree. Now my question: What do you make of people who are not saved and not Christian who lead fulfilling, healthy lives and in the process help others?

 

[Qualitee]

Your foolish explanation, the fact that you don't know Bible verses or how to adequately interpret them, the fact that you are listening to a "mother" about B.C/early A.D psychology when she has no training tells me all I need to asses this situation about your beliefs.

Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV).


Sems like you dont know it either!

 

[MuseofTroy]

Ain't that the truth, won't get an argument outta me. I totally agree.

God warns us about false prophets and those false prophets are working overtime in manipulating the minds of people for their personal gain.

That's why is so important to have a personal relationship with Jesus and pray to Him to give your guidance.

Now that's the truth right there. So many Christians don't even read the bible on their own or do research. They depend on some random pastor for informaiton. Heck some people who weren't ordained by God formed ministries because of GREED. I'm actually thinking about learning Hebrew. Since the bible was translated from Hebrew and Greek, some of the meaning gets lost. One Hebrew word can have 100 different meanings. Maybe learning Hebrew might be excessive (but I'm a nerd and I love to learn so sue me LOL) but I believe it will be a fun educational project to undergo.

 

[toinette]

Well if this is going to turn into a discussion about homosexuality.

How would you all approach this issue if you find out your offspring is homosexual?

i would probably be sad just because of the discrimination and ignorance that they will have to face but on a personal level it wouldnt bother me at all or change my rlshp with my child.

 

[msa]

I believe that getting saved is the first step in leading a godly life. Once someone is truly saved (mind you there are a bunch of fraud Christians out there who claim to be saved but their life and behavior isn't reflective of that transformation) I believe the fruits of their salvation is shown in their life. Someone who is saved strives to be Christ like in every area of their life. They want to be the very best person God wants them to be. Most people I know who are saved have good lives and true joy. They don't participate in destructive behavior and they approach situations with humility and wisdom.

Sad part is, being the very best person God wants you to be may not get you into heaven by God's own standards. And being saved (truly) may not get you into heaven either.

 

[Mortons]

Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV).


Sems like you dont know it either!

I know these verses well and I have actually talked about it in the christian forum. I will copy and paste my responses here.

I would still like a response for the bible verses that I posted that are clearly the opposite of what you claimed about God previously.

 

[msa]

Now that's the truth right there. So many Christians don't even read the bible on their own or do research. They depend on some random pastor for informaiton. Heck some people who weren't ordained by God formed ministries because of GREED. I'm actually thinking about learning Hebrew. Since the bible was translated from Hebrew and Greek, some of the meaning gets lost. One Hebrew word can have 100 different meanings. Maybe learning Hebrew might be excessive (but I'm a nerd and I love to learn so sue me LOL) but I believe it will be a fun educational project to undergo.

Definitely learn Hebrew. My church has been teaching Hebrew classes for the past 8 years. My pastor also uses the Greek as well during sermons and bible study.

It has really taught me a lot.

 

[BroadstreetBully]

We are constrained by the fact that we do not have the same knowledge nor reasoning abilities (based on said knowledge) that God has. God knows what day the world is going to end. Do I? Nope. If I knew it would end tomorrow I'd probably make different choices than if I knew it was going to end in 2097.

We are also constrained by the fact that we were created with the ability to sin. No matter what we have desires that are going to overcome even our best efforts because we were made that way. So when people say that we "choose heaven or hell", I say we don't. We aren't really given the tools to choose heaven, for sure. And we aren't given any tools to avoid hell, for sure.

People are further constrained by basing their beliefs on words written how long ago and in a different society. Now everyone has their own interpretations and it gets messy.

 

[MuseofTroy]

We are constrained by the fact that we do not have the same knowledge nor reasoning abilities (based on said knowledge) that God has. God knows what day the world is going to end. Do I? Nope. If I knew it would end tomorrow I'd probably make different choices than if I knew it was going to end in 2097.

We are also constrained by the fact that we were created with the ability to sin. No matter what we have desires that are going to overcome even our best efforts because we were made that way. So when people say that we "choose heaven or hell", I say we don't. We aren't really given the tools to choose heaven, for sure. And we aren't given any tools to avoid hell, for sure.

But Msa we are given the tools to choose heaven or hell. This discussion proves that point. Mind you we aren't perfect. Sometimes mistakes prove to be valuable learning experiences. I appreciate my shortcomings and the errors I've made because I grew into a better person. My experiences can be a testimony to someone else who has had a similar struggle. Now granted I haven't had any crazy hardships but I've had some issues to deal with. I think you are missing the bigger picture. We aren't perfect and I don't even pretend to fully understand the whole meaning of life. However we should all live for today. Tomorrow isn't promised. Your decisions shouldn't be base don how much time you have, but what is right, just, and how your choices can uplift God's kingdom. Unless you didn't learn from your mistakes then I can see where you are coming from. But I suppose our own life experiences shape who we are and how we think.

 

[Qualitee]

I know these verses well and I have actually talked about it in the christian forum. I will copy and paste my responses here.

I would still like a response for the bible verses that I posted that are clearly the opposite of what you claimed about God previously.

Im done with you. You believe what you want to believe I dont care You sitting there talking about my mother. are you serious? how would you feel if I spoke about your mother? I believe that demons make you sin and you believe differently. So be it. If you were to read the bible more and not what you want to read you would see that.

 

[Mortons]

Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (NIV).


Sems like you dont know it either!

My old post from the Christianity forum.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them.”- If a man lies with a man as with a woman. A man and woman have penetrative. This verse is saying if a man lays with a man as he would a woman it is a sin. Not laying with a man is a sin in itself. I think this is speaking to penetrative sex. In the Hebrew Bible there is no mention of lesbians or women in this verse. I don't know how we rectify that unless we are going to infer something upon silence.

Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."- Dealing with the natural and unnatural. Homosexuality is natural to a homosexual person, as heterosexuality is natural to a heterosexual person. Therefore, men who where heterosexual, were participating in homosexual acts with other men, and this was unnatural to them and indecent. Therefore they are to receive a penalty for that.

My understand is Leviticus was Purity codes correct? Many of which we no longer obied by in the Church as a whole.

 

[MuseofTroy]

I have seen this, and I agree. Now my question: What do you make of people who are not saved and not Christian who lead fulfilling, healthy lives and in the process help others?

I have some unsaved people in my inner circle and they are confused, frustrated and have a superficial appreciation for life. So I'm probably not the right one to answer that question. Oprah seems happy but who knows what goes on behind closed doors. When I was agnostic I felt frustrated about life. I wasn't sure about my purpose.

 

[Mortons]

Im done with you. You believe what you want to believe I dont care You sitting there talking about my mother. are you serious? how would you feel if I spoke about your mother? I believe that demons make you sin and you believe differently. So be it. If you were to read the bible more and not what you want to read you would see that.

The only thing I said about her was that she was not a scholar on the B.C/early A.D mental illnesses. How is she teaching you and she was not researched on this? I am sure she is a wonderful woman none the less, just not a psychologist skilled in mental illness.

 

[msa]

But Msa we are given the tools to choose heaven or hell. This discussion proves that point. Mind you we aren't perfect. Sometimes mistakes prove to be valuable learning experiences. I appreciate my shortcomings and the errors I've made because I grew into a better person. My experiences can be a testimony to someone else who a similar struggle. Now granted I haven't had any crazy hardships but I've had some issues to deal with. I think you are missing the bigger picture. We aren't perfect and I don't even pretend to fully understand the whole meaning of life. However we should all live for today. Tomorrow isn't promised. Your decisions shouldn't be base don how much time you have, but what is right, just, and how your choices can uplift God's kingdom. Unless you didn't learn from your mistakes then I can see where you are coming from. But I suppose our own life experiences shape who we are and how we think.

I guess we just have a fundamental difference in philosophy.

I don't think we can truly choose heaven or hell. Now, if there were no temptations and the built in human propensity to sin was nonexistent and folks just walked around being evil or doing wrong, then I'd say they were actually choosing.

But because of all the built in weaknesses I don't think we can actually choose heaven or hell. We're all already headed for hell because of our biology and a lucky few will get to heaven because God felt like they should. Which is great, for them.

 

[toinette]

Im done with you. You believe what you want to believe I dont care You sitting there talking about my mother. are you serious? how would you feel if I spoke about your mother? I believe that demons make you sin and you believe differently. So be it. If you were to read the bible more and not what you want to read you would see that.

does it even really matter if you talk about her mother at this point? You basically already told her that she was such a weak-minded child that the Devil was able to grab hold of her to this day and make her a lesbian. How do you even top that?

 

[MuseofTroy]

Sad part is, being the very best person God wants you to be may not get you into heaven by God's own standards. And being saved (truly) may not get you into heaven either.

Being saved does get you into heaven. No offense but what you are saying isn't supported by scripture but I hope and pray that you find peace in your life. For someone who is christian you seem to have so much doubt and turmoil. However I appreciate this conversation with you msa. I had some spiritual questions this week and this thread revealed the answer to my own questions. God truly is amazing. I'm not sure about you but I'm confident that when it's my time, I'm going to heaven. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way about your salvation. My belief is based on an authetnic relationship with Jesus, despite my flaws and shortcomings.

 

[username12]

All in all, we are saved by God's grace. Good works are dead without faith. Keep the faith, ask God for understanding and clarity, and you will be fine.

What has given me peace is accepting that there are things of the world we just won't completely understand. Although we are "technologically savvy," we will still never understand it all, the universe, other solar systems, religion. People still can't figure out how the Egyptians built the pyramids. Am I going off track? Yes, which is a sign I need to go to bed, but seriously, we will never understand it all. So just try your best to reflect the teachings of Jesus (which is love), have faith, and believe. That's all we can do.

 

[MuseofTroy]

I guess we just have a fundamental difference in philosophy.

I don't think we can truly choose heaven or hell. Now, if there were no temptations and the built in human propensity to sin was nonexistent and folks just walked around being evil or doing wrong, then I'd say they were actually choosing.

But because of all the built in weaknesses I don't think we can actually choose heaven or hell. We're all already headed for hell because of our biology and a lucky few will get to heaven because God felt like they should. Which is great, for them.

Speak for yourself. I'm not going to hell. With your philosophy why are you even Christian then if you believe that you can't go to heaven?

 

[toinette]

My old post from the Christianity forum.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them.”- If a man lies with a man as with a woman. A man and woman have penetrative. This verse is saying if a man lays with a man as he would a woman it is a sin. Not laying with a man is a sin in itself. I think this is speaking to penetrative sex. In the Hebrew Bible there is no mention of lesbians or women in this verse. I don't know how we rectify that unless we are going to infer something upon silence.

Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."- Dealing with the natural and unnatural. Homosexuality is natural to a homosexual person, as heterosexuality is natural to a heterosexual person. Therefore, men who where heterosexual, were participating in homosexual acts with other men, and this was unnatural to them and indecent. Therefore they are to receive a penalty for that.

My understand is Leviticus was Purity codes correct? Many of which we no longer obied by in the Church as a whole.

I dont see how homosexuality is unnatural anyways. Homosexuality can be found among many species of the animal kingdom (sheep,bison, mice, lions, etc...) Are they being possessed by demons as well?

 

[Qualitee]

does it even really matter if you talk about her mother at this point? You basically already told her that she was such a weak-minded child that the Devil was able to grab hold of her to this day and make her a lesbian. How do you even top that?

there is a fine line btwn talking about some to their face and then saying soething about their mother. atleast she is here to defend herself. my mother is not. she said lot of things about me too but I never said anything about her mom. Gurl plz dont come up in here acting like if someone didnt say something about your mother you wouldnt get upset too.

 

[msa]

Being saved does get you into heaven. No offense but what you are saying isn't supported by scripture but I hope and pray that you find peace in your life. For someone who is christian you seem to have so much doubt and turmoil. However I appreciate this conversation with you msa. I had some spiritual questions this week and this thread revealed the answer to my own questions. God truly is amazing. I'm not sure about you but I'm confident that when it's my time, I'm going to heaven. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way about your salvation. My belief is based on an authetnic relationship with Jesus, despite my flaws and shortcomings.

Now I'm confused.

So as long as a person is saved they can do whatever else and still get into heaven?

 

[Mortons]

Being saved does get you into heaven. No offense but what you are saying isn't supported by scripture but I hope and pray that you find peace in your life. For someone who is christian you seem to have so much doubt and turmoil. However I appreciate this conversation with you msa. I had some spiritual questions this week and this thread revealed the answer to my own questions. God truly is amazing. I'm not sure about you but I'm confident that when it's my time, I'm going to heaven. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way about your salvation. My belief is based on an authetnic relationship with Jesus, despite my flaws and shortcomings.

As I ponder this I don't think its those of us who ponder, think, research, doubt, go back, read, reread, and truly try our best to grasp Him and the essence his Word to our understanding. Its those who accept and believe any and everything someone says a Christian should that we should be concerned about saving and teaching.

A thinking and feeling person can always feel out and find a way back to God.

 

[msa]

Speak for yourself. I'm not going to hell. With your philosophy why are you even Christian then if you believe that you can't go to heaven?

I don't necessarily believe that I can't go to heaven. Just that all humans are on the path to hell and that some of them are lucky enough to get on a different path sometimes.

I dont see how homosexuality is unnatural anyways. Homosexuality can be found among many species of the animal kingdom (sheep,bison, mice, lions, etc...) Are they being possessed by demons as well?

Yup, animal demons. Sent to trick humans into believing that homosexuality is natural.