My Consultation with Mr John...

[VALLEYGIRL]

Ok I had my phone consultation with Mr John earlier this week and I have to admit...I'm a little confused....

We talked for almost an hour and the main thing he kept stressing was to keep moisture out of the hair b/c moisture will destroy black hair???? If I didn't hear of his reputation to grow hair very long and see the pictures in his book I would be the first to say that this is old school thinking!

This goes against everything I have heard or thought to be true about our hair. He is against roller setting, airdrying, washing and putting in a bun and letting it dry that way.
He strictly goes for blow drying and press and curl. I almost wanted to say remeber the Jheri curl...Ola Ray..all that moisture and all that long hair!!?!!? But I didn't want to cut him off as he was on a roll.

I ordered the book and sent him my picture so he could see my hair for the consultation and maybe why I am so upset is b/c he told me to get away from the curly wash and go look that I love so much!!!!.
He advises not using gels and curl activators!!! at all.
He says my hair shaft will get overloaded with moisture and cause it to swell and break over time. He also is against daily washing or rinsing...again too much moisture and it can cause mildew in the hair shaft. Once a week is what he suggested.

He prefers the hot comb as opposed to the flat iron. He told me it's ok to use the comb attachment instead of the bristle brush method described in his book (and the one that that they use in the salon) b/c it may be hard for you to do it properly yourself and you can cause damage to your hair when done incorrectly. He said Ion dryers are all hype. And suggests using oils instead of moisturising products like humectress, pink oil and other water based products.

Tippy75 and CoilyKinks what did he tell you guys during your consultation? Tippy you actually went in to have your hair done right? He says his hair is long like long enough to put in a pony tail.

Don't get me wrong he did give me some good advice regarding deep treatments and how to apply them and product recomendations...most of them Nexuss. He explained that black hair needs to find the proper balance between too much moisture and not too dry in order for it to grow and reach its true potential. All in all what he said made sense the way he explained it but.... I LOVE my curly look and more than likely will continue to wear it this way...I even asked him if it was OK to diffuse it if that will make it better and at that point I think he was very frustrated with me!!!

I think his methods are good ones and will lead to long hair if applied properly. But I do think that they are only one of several methods to grow black hair. And b/c of how I like to wear my hair it just won't work for me.

He said ALL hair including black hair can grow long...very long if maintained properly at home and we do not rely solely on the hair dresser. Coming from a professional stylist this meant a lot. Like he's not out just to make money but really cares about health of black women's hair.

I am going to take his advice with a grain of salt and continue to use what has worked for me .....if I smell mildew then I guess I will have to call him and tell him he was right!!!

Valleygirl

 

[hairfanatic]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I am going to take his advice with a grain of salt and continue to use what has worked for me .....if I smell mildew then I guess I will have to call him and tell him he was right!!!

Valleygirl

[/ QUOTE ]

Valleygirl,

That was an excellent review and good consultation. However, I agree with you, you have to do what works for you. I love Mr. John's Techniques and Wanakees, along with a few others but I have also learned that not all of them work in the way they mention.

First, he advocates the pressing comb. The pressing comb gave me nothing but split ends and the curling irons and flat irons don't give me that, nor do my hair break by using those.

Did he recommend any products or did he just say what not to use?

 

[hairfanatic]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Don't get me wrong he did give me some good advice regarding deep treatments and how to apply them and product recomendations...most of them Nexuss.

[/ QUOTE ]

Valleygirl,

Can you please tell what products by Nexxus that Mr. John recommended?

 

[VALLEYGIRL]

********************Please keep in mind ***********************
******This is advice that he gave ME for MY HAIR***********

This is what he told me for my hair based on a picture and my daily washing/rinsing that I have been doing (and has been working) for years.

He may tell you something completely different depending on what you have been doing to your hair and what your hair needs.
He may also tell me some thing a little different if he actually saw my hair in person.

(Maybe.....b/c he felt strongly on the no moisture stuff)

Don't want ANYONE to read this and go run and follow advice that wasn't directed for you.

Valleygirl

 

[NAY007]

hey valleygirl,

first of all i have to say that i have never heard of mr. john - but i am on the other side of the planet /images/graemlins/frown.gif. all i know about him is what i read in your post.
i have seen your hair on your pics and i liked it a lot. a whole lot. first of all your hair is long. if it is not breaking then it should be healthy. i don't understand what you wanted to get out of this conversation with that man. i mean i am sure he helped a lot of women but to me it seems that what you are doing is working. why should you change your habits and especially your curly style which you love???? /images/graemlins/shocked.gif he talks about black hair and from what i read it seems to me as if all black hair needs to be taken care of the way he says it. like only his method is the best. i would understand if you wanted to go his route if you had problems with your hair or if it was breaking but i don't see anything wrong with your hair and here you are worrying about that dude and his opinion. you also said that he said his hair is long enough to put in a pony tail, well did you tell him how long your hair is????? with your method??? /images/graemlins/grin.gif like i said i'm sure he knows some stuff, but i do not think that his methods are for all black hair (this expression is starting to irritate me). and like you said maybe it wouldn't work for you, if i was you i'd keep doing what i've been doing. sorry that this post was so long, but i get upset sometimes when some people talk about "black hair" like all black hair is the same and need the same treatment/maintenance /images/graemlins/mad.gif. cause that is not true. but i do want to read what the ladies say who have been to his salon already.
nay

 

[VALLEYGIRL]

Hello Hairfanatic!

He suggests:

Therapee Shampoo
Keraphix reconstructor on a regular basis
Emergencee - 1x a month
Aphogee (not a Nexuss product) - once every 4-5 months

Vitamin E oil or TCB lite as my regular hair dressing.
I told him I like Jojoba oil but he said for the scalp only if needed but it will be too heavy for my hair.

Dudley's pressing cream or Vigoral Beeswax for pressing.
I HATE Beeswax but he said that the Vigoral is lighter and will wash out.

He says wash twice before applying deep treatments and you should shampoo again after you rinse the treatment out when you get out from under the dryer.

I think professional stylists know how to use and handle the hot comb better than we average folks do. I am not giving up my ceramic flat iron just yet.

Don't you think Mr John and Wanakee's techniques are totally different? Wanakee is pro moisture and Mr John is pretty much against it? I haven't gotten a chance to read the book just yet but maybe after I read it it will make more sense.

Valleygirl

 

[daviine]

Valleygirl.....Don't you find Vitamin E oil to be so stiff and almost hard to work into the hair? How could he say jojoba oil was too heavy for you rhair without having actually felt your hair? Don't you find that odd?

 

[hairfanatic]

Hi Valleygirl,

Thanks a lot for the information.

Mr. John's recommendations sound a lot like Shamboosies recommendations. I'm surprised he wasn't trying to push his own since it seems like what many hair people tend to do. Again thanks for posting the info. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[VALLEYGIRL]

Hey Nay
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
i don't understand what you wanted to get out of this conversation with that man.

[/ QUOTE ]
You have me cracking up!!! I don't know either. /images/graemlins/confused.gif
I guess I am slightly? obsessed with hair and was a little curious about what he had to say about hair care in general. I have never heard of him before I visited this board and how all his clients and the women that work in the salon have very long hair. So I just wanted to see what he would tell me.

It peaked my interest b/c he gives free consultations and many salons in the US don't always do that. So for him to be willing to do that knowing I live in California and would probably never be a regular customer I thought that was a great thing to do . Especially since all business people seem to always have some sort of angle. He didn't try to push any of his products on me but instead gave me product recs for thing I could go out and buy...none of which he was getting a kick back.(Unless he know Mr Dudley!!!)

I was curious about blow drying damage b/c I want to wear my hair straight more this winter but I don't want to flatten my curls permantly...but he gave me more than what I asked for!!!!

I think if I protect my hair and deep condition regularly and keep the heat on my blow dryer and iron on low to medium I should be OK.

 

[VALLEYGIRL]

Hairfanatic
Girl ...no problem...It is the least I could do since you damn near typed out the whole book in a post to Mahalialee!!!!

Valleygirl

 

[hairfanatic]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Don't you think Mr John and Wanakee's techniques are totally different? Wanakee is pro moisture and Mr John is pretty much against it? I haven't gotten a chance to read the book just yet but maybe after I read it it will make more sense.

Valleygirl

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Valleygirl,

Yes, Mr. John and Wanakee's techniques are different. The thing is, this is the first time I have ever heard that Mr. John was against moisture. In his book he mentions oil on the base of the hair, but I never recalled anything in the book that talked about moisture wasn't being good for the hair. He also is starting to sound like Dorothy Low (the lady that sells DLow products).

I will say one thing that if I couldn't depend on moisture, my hair would feel like straw with the heat appliances I use. So for me, moisture has been my friend. I also have learned that some oils are not all user friendly and can be a waste because they do nothing but sit on top of the hair strand.

Valleygirl,

I'm with Nay on this one. You have the most beautiful hair texture I have ever seen and to change your routine may or may not make a difference in your hair. Maybe you can just try his suggestions for two weeks and if it doesn't work, then that's one you can cross off your list.

 

[hairfanatic]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
It peaked my interest b/c he gives free consultations and many salons in the US don't always do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you say FREE! /images/graemlins/grin.gif In that case, I'm going to have to give him a call.

 

[VALLEYGIRL]

That is the same thing I said to him and he said then try the more liquidy kind.
The jojoba oil has worked great for my DRY hair and I will continue to use it.
I think a lot of people get confused when they see my hair even in person. My best friend is bi-racial and a lot of people think our hair is similar and that I can just blow dry my hair straight and be done with it...yeah right. Our curl pattern may be very similar but the texture NO WAY. Then I get the stylist who doesn't really deal with natural hair and wants to use 600 degrees to whip my hair into a style...once again NO WAY in hell would my hair survive that
. My hair is neither of the textures described above but somewhere in between. It just goes to show you there are so many different types of 'black' hair and it is very important for us to know our own hair.

 

[VALLEYGIRL]

Yes girl FREE. Send him a pic and tell him what your hair problems are. It helps to write them down b/c when he gets going ....

But he specifically said "too much ,moisture will destroy black hair" word for word.
Now maybe he was talking about me and my daily rinsing/washing. Maybe he was saying that is too much.
But he said things like the bun after you wash, roller setting and air drying all keep moisture in the hair and you don't want that...well he didn't want that.
he compared that to leaving damp clothes in the basement and how mildew starts to form. He said with the wet bun, ponytail or thick hair the inside doesn't get dry but I have NEVER had a problem with smelly hair or mildew. He said he used to wash and go and his hair suffered after a few years of doing it. I have been doing this since 98. So 4 years with no problems I think is a long enough test. I wanted to tell him to try some Pantene Smooth and Sleek /images/graemlins/grin.gif

He also said that they have about 40 treatments that they specially prepare right there in the clinic and only about one or 2 of them are moisture treatments. He is not a fan of too much moisture.

I am almost afraid to ask but what does the DLow lady say about moisture?

 

[Supergirl]

Now Valleygirl, you have beautiful hair and lots of it and I don't think it got that way or stays that way by not using moisture!

I know us hair fanatics (me too!) are eager to swallow up what the experts tell us. But there are alot of people out their with cosmetology licenses who will chop 2 inches up off (excuse the ghettocity) yo' hair when you needed a 1/4" trim. Anyway...it still boils down to doing what works for you. If Mr. John grew some people's hair not using moisture and by using blow-dryers (my mouth wide open on that one), we could look at Wanakee's method and Cathy Howse (lots of moisture) and see that they grew hair too. I still believe black hair needs moisture and plenty of it. My advice to you: Keep doing what you have been doing

 

[hairfanatic]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I am almost afraid to ask but what does the DLow lady say about moisture?


[/ QUOTE ]

She said that mositure is the worst thing black people can use on the hair and that oils work better. Her whole shampoo system is based on using oils. Do you remember that interview that Renee did with her? She is an advocate of the press and curl method also. [url=http://www.dlowshampoosystem.com/
See interview below

An Interview with Mrs. Dorothy Low, founder of the D.Low Shampoo System
By Renee` Willingham

As a young-black female, I have struggled with this "hair thing" for over 12 years. My hair has been chemically processed, since I was 10 years old. My mother didn't know what to do with my long, coarse, and kinky hair because she is of mixed ethnic descent and a relaxer seemed like an answer to all of the long hours in the salon for a press and curl. I watched my hair from going back length to above my ears. I have tried every product out there and been to numerous hair salons. Nothing ever seemed to work, exasperated and tired I was ready to give up on having my childhood hair back.

Finally in college, I have found an excellent product that works for black hair without chemically processing it. The D. Low Shampoo System is a revolutionary hair care product that maintains the hair by replenishing it with natural oils without changing the natural structure of your hair and does what chemicals only promised to do. Regardless of your hair type it becomes healthier, which promotes growth and accumulated length.

I had the pleasure of candidly interviewing Mrs. Dorothy Low, the creator of the shampoo system and owner of Alternatives hair salon in Atlanta, Georgia, about black hair care maintenance and common misconceived ideas about hair products.

Why is Afro-American hair so unique?
The Afro-American has been given perfect hair; however, we have been mislead by the hair-care industry and taken advantage of by our ignorance of hair knowledge. African-American hair has excellent elasticity but because the hair is tightly coiled the natural oils can not reach the hair strand. Thus, the hair looks dry and ashy. Black hair is like the beautiful lamb's hair. It is naturally soft but just like wool's hair it will get bushy at the ends because oil cannot reach the ends. The oils must be replaced by placing oil on the hair strand. The D. Low Shampoo System helps control elasticity and adds oil to the hair. The direct heat from the blow dryer, curling, and pressing iron sets the oil in. With every shampoo the hair becomes more manageable.

Why are moisturizers and grease and bad for Afro-American hair?
Moisturizer for Black hair is like grease is to the Caucasian or naturally straight hair. Moisturizers draw elasticity and natural oils out of the hair. Moisturizers are the last things that black hair needs. Black hair needs oil on the strand. Don't put grease on the scalp and hair. Grease weighs the hair down, attracts dirt, and does not penetrate the hair. Please don't use conditioners that are moisturizing in the hair. Hair must be kept in a growing state and using methods of grooming that build the hair up and place oil onto the hair strand will help the hair to grow. Grease only clogs the pores and holds moisture in and keeps the hair holding a smell. Air cannot get to the scalp and keeps the roots dry and hard. Grease knocks moisture into the hair, retarding your own natural oil and eliminates keeping a straight style. The key is using correct shampoos that act as a catalyst to keeping a great hairstyle. All my products are natural and oil based.

Why do women with relaxed hair seem to be plagued by dandruff?

Chemicals dry out the hair strand and scalp, thus causing dandruff. The scalp will eventually purge the chemicals after relaxing has ended and the hair will again be soft and the oils will be replaced to the scalp. The right shampoo will eliminate dry scalp. Check with a dermatologist if dandruff is chronic.

Can I use the system if I am transitioning from a relaxer to a natural style?

This is the perfect product to come out of relaxers. The new growth will become soft and every 8-12 months the hair texture will become softer. It can take up to 5 years to completely grow a relaxer out of the hair system. As the hair grows out, you will notice a difference in textures and see how soft your natural hair will become. The new growth will be manageable and easily maintained. If you decide to continue to relax the hair, the hair will be soft and need to be relaxed no more than 3-4 times a year. My products soften the hair with oil.

Do I need a deep treatment with heat?
Absolutely not! Only use a deep treatment, if it has been prescribed by a dermatologist. Nothing can repair hair better then a pair of scissors.

Are protein treatments good for my hair?
I only recommend placenta for people coming out of weaves and wigs. The hair is lifeless and fragile. Don't use the syrupy protein treatments, which make the hair hard and dry. Manufacturers know that the chemicals have damaged the hair and want you to buy something that will only exacerbate the problem. The D. Low system will treat the damaged hair and bring it back to life. There are no miracles in a bottle, only maintenance can yield healthy hair.

Why use heat?
All heat is damaging, if you are using the wrong products. Heat will seal in the oils of the D. Low system. My system uses heat for healthy hair. The hair will be light, fluffy, and never heavy. Even if you don't use the blow dryer, your hair will still be much more manageable.
How do I maintain my hairstyle?

All products in the D. Low shampoo system can be used for maintenance. Treating the hair with D. Low Shampoo System will yield positive results. The press and curl will last from shampoo to shampoo.

Why do women with chemically processed hair have hard and unmanageable new growth?
Hair is a storage for whatever is in your system. For example, when people are tested for drugs they take a strand of the hair. The chemicals in the system will show in your hair, and the new growth is tight, hard, and dry because the chemicals are still coming out on this strand. The most damage from chemicals comes through the new growth and laying a touch up on hair that contains residual chemical further weakens and thins the hair strand. If you are transitioning from a relaxer, there is no need to cut all of your hair off. The hair will continue to grow the relaxer out for up to 5 years. Every 8-12 months you will notice a change of texture in your hair. All you can do is keep the hair healthy and gradually cut the dead ends off.

Can vitamins help my hair?
The hair can be nourished with vitamins that are targeted for the hair. Healthy hair grows without anything, but remember that the hair has to be kept in a growing state. My biotin and zinc vitamins help keep the hair rich in color and growing. They are made by the hair and scalp clinics for sickle cell anemia patients. These patients have weak, fragile and thinning hair and their hair shows remarkable improvement after using the vitamins. The fingernails will grow stronger and you will also have increased energy. It sparks the active phase of healthy hair growth, showing a noticeable difference in volume and texture of the hair with continued daily use. I highly recommend this for sparse and thinning hair.

Final comments?
Back in the Madame C.J. Walker days, Black women had long and healthy hair. Only now, when chemicals are prevalent are many sisters losing their hair. My products are revolutionary because they keep the hair from reverting as Madame C.J. Walker's products did not, and keeps the hair light without the use of hair grease.

To the Hair Beautician:
This is a new millennium and we have come full circle with hair care, from natural styles to chemicals and back to natural styles. Don't get left in the past. Learn how to style Afro-American hair without chemicals. Give every black woman the opportunity to have healthy hair that grows without problems.

More information is available on the D. Low Web site.
Alternatives Beauty Salon &amp; Hair Products
2135-A Defoor Hills, NW
Atlanta, Georgia 30318
404-351-9585 (Salon)
1-800-669-7630 (Order Products)

 

[pebbles]

Valleygirl,
Your review of your phone consultation with Mr. John was informative. I agree with your ultimate conclusion to take his advice with a grain of salt. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Please keep doing what you're doing. Your hair is beautiul and I think the moisture helps!
His opinion that moisture destroys black hair really threw me for a loop!!! /images/graemlins/confused.gif If it weren't for moisture, my hair would still be in the bad shape it was for so many years. Oh my.......I wanted to call him for a consultation, but I've changed my mind. I personally cannot agree with anyone that goes against moisture for black hair. I don't believe that's right. Just my opinion. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[VALLEYGIRL]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
She said that mositure is the worst thing black people can use on the hair and that oils work better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh Lawd!!!! her too!!

Thank you for that interview though

I guess that there are different schools of thought on what to do to grow our hair.
But the ones who I *know* that have been successful JRW, Adriene, Allandra (forgive me if I am leaving anyone out) all wash their hair frequently and use moisturizing products to maintain and care for their long hair.

Oh well I guess I satifisied my curiousity
Valleygirl

 

[Supergirl]

I believe it was Flava Flav who said "Don't believe the hype..."

 

[LondonDiva]

Hey Valleygirl i read your review with much interest and was scowling and talking to my computer screen like I was watching a talk show. LOL

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I am so upset is b/c he told me to get away from the curly wash and go look that I love so much!!!!.


[/ QUOTE ]

Girl you have to do what WORKS for you and what you have been used to in maintaining and keeping the health of your hair, which is beautiful, for that past 4 years. How can the man be advising people to shy away from wearing a style on their heads in the way which it NATURALLY grows! /images/graemlins/mad.gif I don't blame you for being upset.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
He says my hair shaft will get overloaded with moisture and cause it to swell and break over time. He also is against daily washing or rinsing...again too much moisture and it can cause mildew in the hair shaft.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is the part where I shouted "Absolute BULLS**T" at the computer screen. What may work for some of those women that work in his salon or get treated by him do not work for us all. I am not feeling the way some of these hair care "professionals" cram all our hair types based simply on our African heritage whether we be mixed or not into one category. If that was the case we would ALL be using the same hair products on this board and they'd all respond the same way with our hair. This we know is not true from the Shamboosie craze a few months back where he SWORE by the magic potion of Nexxus Humectress which didn't do JACK for my hair /images/graemlins/mad.gif but worked wonders on others. That and the Keraphix went straight to my sister. A waste of my hard earned money.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
He prefers the hot comb as opposed to the flat iron.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh he does does he? I know for a fact that they can stop your hair from reverting back to it's natural curl over time if too hot or run over the same area too much. My mother's hair looked totally relaxed after weekly presses with the comb. Valleygirl if the ceramic flat iron works for you then continue to use it. One rave about it is the negatove ion charge against the positive ion in the hair which means that damage from the heat is very minimal. Remember how high in temperature it can go and many people are actually stunned that the hair isn't left hot to the touch and straightens well at the same time?

Just keep doing what you do. Your pictures prove that you are doing it all right by your standards and you know how your hair feels and responds to it. I think these days we know our hair so well that we can smell a product and just know whether or not it's going to work in our hair. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif if you do use some of his product recommendation (especially the nexxus) see if you can get sample sizes first of all so you don't waste your money.

Not saying that the man doesn't know what he's talking about at all, it just gets to me how adamant some people are with THEIR methods and techniques and nothing else will do even if you do know your own hair.

 

[sweetcocoa]

Valleygirl, I'd stick to what works for you. My only problem I have with moisture...is that I didn't start years ago! lol I'd be way ahead of the game by now. I'm sticking to the moisture cause my hair hasn't look and felt this good since I was a child with 2 very long and thick pigtails. Excellent review. My curiosity about his method is satisfied and I'm content to say I'll be sticking to what I've learned here. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Valerie]

Dear Valley Girl
I don't know really what to say, I am not saying his techniques don't work. But I say your hair recently and you have very lovely hair. I loved your red colour. I have to agree with the shampoos, he uses about the moisturising treatment, I have to say nay on that, I think that if I was to follow his treatment as regards to rinsing, I would have to give up my swimming, which I do on a weekly basis and also I rinse most times on a daily basis and I was suprised the amount of growth I have achieved. I don't blow dry on a regular basis and my hair has grown very thick, looking at it you would only see the thickness, but when I stretch out my hair, then you see the length. If you go to the Salon every week, I am sure it will work, but would you want to go to his salon every week. I know you want to grow your hair longer, we all do, but some of these so-called experts just want to appeal to our hair insecurities, if you use my method, you will get long hair. If you don't it will be short. I use to go to many hairdressers, to get the perms, the relaxers, the steam treatment etc, you wash your hair every two weeks, etc, because with black hair, if you wash too often you wash out the natural moisture. Since I have looked after my hair and I have visited other hair sites, and I have got books by Pam Ferrell, Lonnice Brittenum Bonner and my favourite is Cathy Howse, my hair has improved greatly, since I started to rinse it daily, my hair in July 2002, stretched reached the middle of my earlobe, after the daily rinsing my hair is now past my earlobe when stretched to my chin. I also believe in asking for Divine Intervention. You have lovely hair, you must continue to work with what is working for you. A lot of black men have their hair in plaits and their hair goes very long and they are constantly wetting their hair, even my Dad at 76, has to shave his head every few days, he washes his scalp daily. I would buy his book, because I am interested to his views,about the different protein treatments and I would like to look at the pictures, and I am interested in the various shampoos, but I won't be using his blow drying, pressing bits, it is not practical for me at all and I feel the method I am using is right of me and I am very pleased with my results. /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Valerie]

I also have to agree with Sweet Coco, if I started rinsing, last year this time, my hair would have been at least nearing bra length. Because my hair never looked better, and it is extremely soft.

 

[Mahalialee4]

My honest and humble opinion ( and I am a licensed hair stylist by the way), is that "the METHOD should never be more important than THE INDIVIDUAL." Their techniques may work for the majority of their clients, but in fairness, have these same clients tried alternate methods or were they only consistent in using the no moisture, no wrapping, etc. methods dictated by these individuals. Mr. John and Ms. D.Lowe, I give them props for their achievements with hair growth, but personally I am very against using heat on my hair. I was put through that as a child. My hair was not healthy or long for long. It was not thick either. Most important, I prefer to achieve results, naturally, and inexpensively, and out of a salon environment. I love me some MOISTURE! oil! frequent rinsing and all the things their methods forbid. Why, because it works for me. As for their clients, if they are satisfied, and if they prefer the pressed look, which I do not, I am happy for them. Bonjour

 

[VALLEYGIRL]

I just want to say...YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST!!!!

Thank you all for understanding and reassuring me that I should do what has been working for me all this time.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
and was scowling and talking to my computer screen like I was watching a talk show

[/ QUOTE ]

London Diva you had me laughing out loud when I read your post.The scowling part is what I was picturing!!! And YES continued use of the iron (any kind; curling, hot comb,flat iron) when it is too hot will relax or 'train' any hair to make it go permantly straight. And that I do not want.

I have to keep in mind I called him to ask for HIS advice and methods and I guess I got it. Many women probably go to him who don't have much hands on hair care knowledge as we do and haven't tried any other method..or tried other stuff and nothing worked.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
"the METHOD should never be more important than THE INDIVIDUAL

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true Mahalialee. I guess he doesn't take this into consideration. Like Valerie said what about if you go swimming a lot?

I do think his methods work for a lot of women but just will not work for me. He obviously prefers the pressed straight look which many women love and is totally flattering on them...but for me I am satisfied with my wild bushy look!!!

And Hairfanatic the 5 weekly Aphogee treatments he suggested that I start off with he said will get rid of some of my kinks!!! So I definitly won't be following that either.

I am interested to hear what Tippy and CoilyKinks have to say about him...are you guys out there????
I hope you read this and respond before it gets lost too far back in the posts.
Thanks again everyone!!!
Valleygirl

 

[AmilLion]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
But he specifically said "too much ,moisture will destroy black hair" word for word.
Now maybe he was talking about me and my daily rinsing/washing. Maybe he was saying that is too much.
But he said things like the bun after you wash, roller setting and air drying all keep moisture in the hair and you don't want that...well he didn't want that.
he compared that to leaving damp clothes in the basement and how mildew starts to form.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel like there's just far too many people out there trying to give advice about "Black Hair". Everyone's claiming that their regimen's are the best, and how this person and that person has hair down their back.

Personally, I feel like everyone's hair structure is different. Some of us may have genetically dry hair and may require moisture every single day. Yes, Mr. John looked at a photo of your hair, however, did he put it under a microscope and performed a hair strand analysis of your hair?

I say, it's good to try different things until you find the right combination for "Your" hair. As with me, my hair loves Mild Protein conditioners every week followed with a moisturizing conditioner. My hair barely comes out, it's growing fine and I have no problems with it other than the overprocessed and underprocessed sections. I spray leave-in conditioner on my hair every other day and I stopped using hair oil as often.

Ladies, my advice, if you have a winning combination that works for you stick with it. All this, using flatiron works for your hair, use it, if it doesn't agree, why use it!

Doesn't water evaporate anyway? If you put a towel in a basement with no air circulating, of course the towel will remain damp. But if we're outside and there's wind blowing and etc, wouldn't that help the water evaporate/absorb or whatever lol, you ladies get my point /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[adrienne0914]

i'm sorry, but umm... who is mr. john? girl, i don't know of too many people (on or off the hair boards) that have hair as healthy and good looking as yours. i woulda hung up on mr. john... for real doh!!! /images/graemlins/mad.gif

adrienne

 

[Faith]

Girl I'm sure you know what I'm going to say. I LOVE your hair. Your routine works for you....stay with it. If I had hair like yours I wouldn't even own a flatiron, hotcomb, blowdrier, etc. You get my point. I like my hair straight and curly. More straight than curly but there's no way I would go without moisture. Which is what he suggests (especially for a straight look). My hair would look and feel like straw. NO WAY! Keep on keeping on girl /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[kasey]

Hey VG I guess I am entering this convo kind of late, but here are my thoughts. I used the hot comb all through my childhood and teen years and my strands never got longer than four or five inches. And it was always dry and damaged.

I think that Mr. John may be coming to you with a kind of misperception about black women and what they want to achieve with their hair, after all, his salon is in Detroit. Maybe he is under the assumption that all women want the relaxed bone straight look. Or, maybe that is the look he prefers black women to have.

I hope that you don't abandon your current methods and start blowdrying and pressing your hair every week.

Many girls on this board have talked about how "professionals" ruined their hair. I hope you don't compromise all your hard work based on what Mr. John believes.

 

[beverly]

Hey, Im all late too on this one, but I would like to add a different point of view. As a child, I got a press and curl about every 2 to three months, and my hair was very long until I begged my mom to put a relaxer in my hair. I have Mr. John's book, and by looking at the textures of the people hair in his book, the womens textures are very similar to mine, so with that said, I believe that Valleygirl's, Allandra's and JRW's hair may not be as coarse and have as much shrinkage as the people in the book, (which isn't a bad thing), but I only point that out because that technique may not work for those inidviudals for that reason. I did try to revisit the idea of press and curl (blowouts) as an adult, but it did not work and actually caused more damage because my hair is actually more coarse as an adult, and the reversion (knots and naps) would begin to show around the 3 day mark, (it was hot in the summer /images/graemlins/smile.gif. I need to wash my hair frequently, and getting all the heat applied to my hair every week was damaging. My mother on the other hand started doing the hard press again this year, and she does it every couple of months and it works well for her, and her hair had gotten pretty long, but she cut it last month to a bob.