Pope Benedict XVI Resigning!

Discussion in 'Christian Fellowship' started by Nice & Wavy, Feb 11, 2013.

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  1. Nice & Wavy

    Nice & Wavy Well-Known Member

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    Amen, sis:yep:.

    In this hour, we must know to whom we are to give our total and complete attention to....because the Holy Spirit...HE IS OUR HELP!!!


    "My sheep recognize my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give
    them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them away from me, for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. So no one can take them from me. The Father and I are one." John 10: 27-30


     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2013
  2. HeChangedMyName

    HeChangedMyName New Member

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    Amen and Amen
     
  3. PinkPeony

    PinkPeony Well-Known Member

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    the best of all poss. worlds
    I'm amazed at his humility in taking this step, I hope future popes take note
     
  4. Galadriel

    Galadriel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it's interesting :yep:

    Some believe "Peter the Roman" will be a pope who leads the Church as St. Peter did, and will emphasize the authority of the pope as the Successor of Peter.
     
  5. Galadriel

    Galadriel Well-Known Member

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    The moment Benedict was elected pope, it was OBVIOUS he would be pope for a short time--he's 85 years old.

    John Paul II was elected when he was 58 years old, if I'm not mistaken, so he enjoyed a longer pontificate (26 years).
     
  6. MrsHaseeb

    MrsHaseeb Well-Known Member

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    Leads the church as Peter did and will emphasize the authority of the pope??

    Acts 10:24-26 KJV
    And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends. [25] And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him . [26] But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

    1 Peter 1:1 KJV
    Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

    1 Peter 5:1-4 KJV
    The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: [2] Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof , not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; [3] Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. [4] And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

    2 Peter 1:1 KJV
    Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

    Peter certainly wasn't trying to go around emphasizing his authority as "pope". And I never see this title once in God's Word either. Seems like if he were a "pope" he would have called himself that, but he rightly called himself a man, an Apostle of Jesus Christ, a servant and an Elder. He wasn't looking to be worshipped, to enforce his own authority, and he never said he was the "vicar" or "pope" of Christ...
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2013
  7. Belle Du Jour

    Belle Du Jour Well-Known Member

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    Are you implying that Catholics worship the pope? If so, you don't know anything about the church. It really doesn't matter what Peter thought about himself, it's about the authority Christ gave to him before He left this earth. Also, sola scriptura (the old "well, it's not in the Bible so it's heresy") as an argument is fatally flawed. :nono:

    As the book says, "whoever has ears to hear, let him hear." God is knocking at many hearts, but they are shutting Him out because they are so solid. I'm not getting into any debate about the church or what we believe. I'm just tired of veiled shots against what we "supposedly" believe. In the end, we will all know the truth. :yep:
     
  8. Belle Du Jour

    Belle Du Jour Well-Known Member

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    "I also say to you that you are Peter/Cephas, and upon this rock/cephas I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it." Matt 16:18

    The word of Jesus Christ Himself. The End.
     
  9. auparavant

    auparavant New Member

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    One of my wise friends (she's an older Jewish woman) said that there could be more harm done when one is not of fully sound mind. She was referring to the scandals that existed while JPII was in office that could have been dealt with earlier on but that he had become so infirmed. In other words, when getting feeble, it's best to bow out quickly.
     
  10. MrsHaseeb

    MrsHaseeb Well-Known Member

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    Dear... You can twist the words of Jesus Christ if you want. Jesus Christ is the chief cornerstone of the church, Peter played a great part in building the early church, yes but the church was built on Peter's confession of Jesus as the Christ. If you read his epistles you see nothing of a papacy. I'm fine with tradition, unless it contradicts the Bible, which is the only inspired, God-breathed book so don't tell me about sola scriptura being "flawed". Even a cursory glance of the new testament will reveal that Catholicism wasn't the early church.... My heart is fully sold out for Jesus. He has no need to knock. The truth is in Jesus Christ, not a man-made religious institution.

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  11. Belle Du Jour

    Belle Du Jour Well-Known Member

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    You are right, Christ alone is the cornerstone. What I said is He gave Peter authority over the Church on the earth. These two things are not mutually exclusive. I choose to believe what He said. When you study the early church fathers and their writings (which aren't in the Bible, BTW--it's okay to venture out, it really is) you will see exactly what the early church looked like. It certainly wasn't Luther's, Calvin's or Joel Osteen's church. :look: Perhaps more than a cursory glance is in order.

    And I can tell you, there is nothing in Catholic tradition that contradicts the Word. Nothing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2013
  12. MrsHaseeb

    MrsHaseeb Well-Known Member

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    I don't follow any of those men, I follow Jesus Christ. The men you mentioned are heretics and sorcerers. And I have studied early church history... Thanks. Peter wasn't given authority over the church in the sense of what the papacy is today. He said himself he was an elder and elders were not to lord over God's people. I believe everything Jesus Christ said, but I won't accept a twisted interpretation of it. This wasn't meant to insult you, I do believe you're sincere. However, it was my study of the early church that gave me my information. You should study something other than Catholic literature.

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  13. auparavant

    auparavant New Member

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    "catholic" means "universal" faith....

    whatever Jesus gave us...including the eucharist...which was the Last Supper...it's biblical so, essentially, yes, the catholic church or the universal faith of belief in the Messiah is 2,000 years old...

    I'll say this, when in doubt, actually read "their" documents. That goes for someone wanting to know about any protestant denomination or any other faith. It's best to hear it from the horse's mouth.

    Also,
    A mediator would say, "it would be better to say that my own personal belief/denominational belief would disagree with the other position..." rather than this type of exchange. We don't have the same beliefs, exactly, but c'mon...we can be nicer than this. Maybe if the emotions are taken out of the discussion....? I dunno. Isn't it more beneficial to talk to each other than AT each other and with obvious disdain and chargings?
     
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  14. ccd

    ccd New Member

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    The prophesy does say that the anti Christ would come through the last Pope of the Catholic Church. In revelations our church is persecuted and Rome gets destroyed. Followed by wars ect.

    I don't know whether true or not but the Catholic Church has been involved with unholy behaviors. This Pope know the details also....Why is it impossible that the ushering in of the antichrist wouldn't come through the most powerful church in the world. I just don't see how one can say :"never"

    Also, I have heard he is going to be personally sued for hiding pedophile behaviors so they have asked him to step down.

    I think time will tell honestly but this is historic and should be looked at in depth.
     
  15. aribell

    aribell formerly nicola.kirwan

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    A friend called me yesterday asking what I thought, and when I didn't have an opinion, he asked if I thought it meant something shady was going on. When an 85 year old man says that he is too ill and frail to carry out duties that are extremely demanding both mentally and physically, there is nothing about that which would surprise me. He has already passed the average life expectancy for men overall, and he is older than the last pope was when he died.

    I'm going with Occam's razor.

    Well, I'm not sure if it can be that black and white. How could the antichrist infiltrate the church? Likely the same way that false teachers and "tares" and wolves in sheep's clothing infiltrate the Church and lead people away all the time. Remembering that the end times are just that, the passing away of this earth for the new heavens and the new earth, what the Church will be in the new is not exactly what it is here. Satan won't prevail, but the turbulence experienced by the people of God directly before Jesus comes again is of a kind we have not experienced yet.

    It's so interesting that these prophecies have been mentioned, as similar things have been on my mind these past few weeks. I think that in all things, every believer must be alert and prepared to confess ultimate loyalty to Christ, as Jesus said that deception will be so strong that even the elect would be deceived if possible. So whatever it is, it will seem very convincing.

    All we can do is keep watch and pray. Those who trust in Him have nothing to fear.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013
  16. ccd

    ccd New Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fogB6nJzEQ0&sns=em




    This is a good summary of certain aspects of this Pope's resignation. It's not simply that he was an old Pope but that his place in history was written about. In other words, the significance of his short papacy is pretty interesting to say the least.

    This also explained some things to me that I hadn't heard before or considered I guess. Also the reason why the Catholic Church is looked down upon by other denominations


    Eta. It's also excellent in the aspect of describing the importance of JP the second and how much influence he had in the world. At least IMHO
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013
  17. Galadriel

    Galadriel Well-Known Member

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    The word "Trinity" isn't in the Bible either, but we still profess belief in the Holy Trinity.

    Pope comes from the word "papa" or "daddy," because the Apostles were spiritual fathers to members of the Church. Saint Paul speaks about being such in his letter to Timothy.

    Peter was given the Keys to the Kingdom (Matthew 16:18) and the specific wording that Christ used when He said that whatever Peter loosed on earth would be loosed in Heaven, and whatever he bound on earth would be bound in Heaven--this is a specific teaching and moral authority among Jews that Peter, as a Jew, would have recognized that Christ was giving him over the Church.

    The Apostles appointed presbyters (Greek: Presbyteros, aka Overseers) to oversee the Church and teach in successive authority. This is the basis of Apostolic Succession.
     
  18. Galadriel

    Galadriel Well-Known Member

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    But Sola Scriptura is flawed, and was invented in the 16th Century. Also, how do you know when a "tradition" contradicts the Bible?

    With 40,000+ Protestant denominations all claiming "Bible alone" and the Holy Spirit guiding their interpretations, someone has some explaining to do.

    There are some denominations that reject the Trinity, or baptism--and they will argue this based on "Scripture alone." We've even recently had some people in this forum arguing that Jesus and the archangel Michael are one and the same--based on their interpretation of Scripture.

    A five-point Calvinist will argue that God predestines certain people to go to Hell, regardless of free will--based on "Scripture alone," and a Methodist will argue the exact opposite, based on "Scripture alone."

    Another thing to note is that "Scripture alone" is not even in Scripture. Did you know that the first Gospel was written 30 years after the Resurrection of Christ? So what did the Church do for 30 years before it had the Gospels?

    Your criticism of Catholicism is based on a lack of information, as well as a faulty understanding of what we actually believe and teach.
     
  19. Galadriel

    Galadriel Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it appears you haven't really studied church history, due to the ignorant comments you've made thus far. You should study something other than propagandist anti-Catholic literature. :yep:
     
  20. AtlantaJJ

    AtlantaJJ Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 6:33
    I agree with the bolded. I am being lead to develop a close, personal, intimate relationship with God, to be filled with the Holy Spirit and to follow Jesus with all my heart, mind, & strength.
     
  21. MrsHaseeb

    MrsHaseeb Well-Known Member

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    First of all, my studies of Catholicism came from when I met someone very special to me and he is Catholic. My studies at that point were simply to understand what it was all about because I knew very little of it at that point. I have read Catholic literature, so no my readings have not come from anti-Catholic propaganda as you say. I have also read enough through the Catholic boards on here to be aquainted..

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  22. MrsHaseeb

    MrsHaseeb Well-Known Member

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    I don't use the word trinity, for starters. I get the origins of the word pope. But in the sense of what it is today, there is no evidence of it in the Bible. Your comments about Apostolic succession contradicts what you claim the pope is. Peter didn't look for a successor for himself he looked for overseers for God's flock. Peter alone was not given the keys to the kingdom, all the disciples were. This is a lie from the pits of hell to give one man sole authority to make decisions. In Matthew 18 Jesus repeats the ability to bind and lose to HIS DISCIPLES not only Peter. So when Jesus Christ spoke those words to Peter it was a representation of the church being built on his confession as Jesus as the Christ because that's who the church was built on, JESUS CHRIST. Not Peter, although he was a powerful man of God.

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  23. MrsHaseeb

    MrsHaseeb Well-Known Member

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    Sola Scriptura is flawed??? Is not God's Word complete? Why do we need something else when the Bible is the only God-breathed, inspired book? The idea of Sola Scriptura did not begin with Martin Luther, John Calvin or any of these heretics, it came right from the Bible!

    2 Timothy 3:15-16 KJV
    And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    Only the Bible is able to thoroughly equip us. The only reason you need Catechisms and other books is to make sense of unscriptural practices such as prayer to dead saints (necromancy), prayer beads, priests inability to marry, grace being attached to church sacraments, Mary worship, etc. None of this comes from the Bible. This is Jesus' response to people who try to worship Mary:

    Luke 11:27-28 KJV
    And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. [28] But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

    I agree, there are many "denominations". I am not apart of any of them. It all boils down to people interpreting the Bible with their own carnal minds versus praying and fasting to learn the mind of God like we should be doing. The Bible warns us of this so your arguments are unfounded. What is unscriptural is Catholics sole dependence of "church" leadership to interpret the Bible for them and believing their church over sound scriptural doctrine. Ill leave with posting straight from the inspired Word of God.

    1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV
    But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned. (The things of God are discerned by his Spirit. There's your answer to why so many people are so far gone. Many of them simply don't have the Holy Ghost)


    2 Peter 3:15-16 KJV
    And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. (Unlearned and unstable people were twisting the Bible back then. This is not new)

    Acts 17:11 KJV
    These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (These people didn't just believe the apostle, they studied the Word, not other writings, and got understanding for themselves and the Bible calls them NOBLE)
     
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  24. Laela

    Laela Between point A and point B

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    My prayer in earnest is with this frail pope and his family. That, in spite of all controversy surrounding him, that all is well with his soul with God at his death. We all will die one day. Only Abba Father knows it all. When it's all said and done, God sits on the Throne and is the One all men will stand before to give an account.

    The pope certainly is not exempt, and is subjected to the only Judge that God had already appointed:

    Acts 17:31
    Because he has appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he has ordained; and of this he has given assurance unto all men, in that he has raised him from the dead.
     
  25. MrsHaseeb

    MrsHaseeb Well-Known Member

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    Very humbling Laela. Thank you. We will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

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  26. auparavant

    auparavant New Member

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    Please remove the emotion behind the discussion...and be kind to one another.
     
  27. Galadriel

    Galadriel Well-Known Member

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    I have taught Catholic religious education classes as well as Bible studies, and I guarantee I have way more years of study of the faith than you, and I both practice and believe the entire Catholic faith.

    Give me the name or title of a Catholic author or "literature" you have read or studied.
     
  28. Galadriel

    Galadriel Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is, because it was created in the 16th Century by the Protestants, mainly, a man named Martin Luther. Not only is it ironically "man-made," but it is also un-Biblically sound.


    The Word is complete, but it is not the sole source of authoritative teaching and doctrine--the Apostles' left us their oral teachings and examples as well.

    Wrong. This is why I doubt you've read your history, even Protestant history. Find anywhere in Christian history or Christian theology prior to the 1500s where this is true.


    Again, you speak ignorance. Scripture is indeed God's Word and infallible, but the Scriptures do not say or teach sola scriptura. In fact, the Apostle's themselves in the Bible tells us to hold to their traditions, whether they be written, by word of mouth, or example. The Apostles gave us both Scripture and Apostolic Tradition.

    Non-denominational is still, ironically, a denomination. :yep:

    Who are you to say that the Calvinist is wrong and interpreting with a carnal mind versus your interpretation? How do you know? This is the problem with the circular argument of sola scriptura and private interpretation.

    Actually, they are very logical and I even provided solid examples of why sola scriptura doesn't work. You just choose to ignore them and throw out Scripture verses. There is a problem with saying that the Bible is the sole rule of faith, the sole interpreter of faith, when Christians bring two conflicting interpretations (both "led by the Spirit")--which one is right?
    Is the Calvinist right about free will or the Methodist?
    Are the Quakers right about baptism or the Evangelical?
    Are those who identify Jesus Christ as Michael the Archangel right, or those who believe Christ is the Second Person of the Trinity and full God right?
    You say they are interpreting with carnal minds, they will tell YOU the same thing. Being non-denominational doesn't mean you're any more in-tuned with correct Bible understanding or interpretation. Non-denominational Protestantism is still Protestantism with Protestant roots.

    Sound Scriptural doctrine? Wow, with 40,000 different ideas of "sound scriptural doctrine," you're going to have to narrow it down and tell me which one it is.
     
  29. Belle Du Jour

    Belle Du Jour Well-Known Member

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    What prophesy is this? What's your source?
     
  30. Belle Du Jour

    Belle Du Jour Well-Known Member

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    Because thanks wasn't enough. :yep:
     
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