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Relaxed Fine Hair 2018

PlanetCybertron

Well-Known Member
I’ve been trying to find a thread that’s dedicated to fine hair. Let me know if there is one so that I can add it to this for past reference, and have this be support for 2018 on up

Edit: I’m seeing the more recent thread for 2018 fine haired naturals. While I don’t want to intrude, I do like to be all inclusive, so I’ll dedicate this thread to the relaxed ladies that have fine hair, since I’ve also searched for a similar, up to date thread and I haven’t found one.

Here’s a reference for previous relaxed hair thread:
https://longhaircareforum.com/threads/relaxed-ladies-with-fine-hair.97609/

Double Edit: CutiePie has been so kind as to put a link for the past threads dedicated to fine hair. I would definitely encourage cross reference for both natural and relaxed since we all can learn from one another. The protein Challenge thread is also very relevant for fine hair as it adds overall weight and strength.

As stated, it’s all about caring for fine hair. Any setbacks you’ve come from or are planning to come back from, things that work, things that don’t, etc.

Giving insight about your regimen helps too for anyone who needs reference.

Hope this can help others with fine hair! :)
 
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PlanetCybertron

Well-Known Member
:hiya: Fine stranded lady here! Lol.

I’ll probably try to repost things here that apply to those of us with fine strands from the main Relaxed hair threads. And ITA, protein is very necessary for retention of fine strands.

No kidding.

I kept thinking I was protein sensitive for the longest concerning my roots, because they would always get super rough and tangled even after a moisture follow up. But it’s mostly my relaxed parts that need it very frequently. At least once a week.

So I’ve been applying the protein treatment 1-2 inches from my roots. Since my roots haven’t been processed yet, they don’t need as much protein as the rest.

Have no idea why I took so long to realize this lol
 

PlanetCybertron

Well-Known Member
Which is better for fine strands, do you think: a lye relaxer or a no-lye relaxer? And why?

I think it mostly depends on the Ph formulation of whatever relaxer you get, but I also think people should consider what products they use on a regular basis.

Both lye and no-lye leave deposits. Be they potassium, calcium, sodium, or lithium based.

I think it’s mostly a matter of how well and quickly you can get those deposits off of very fine textured strands. Concerning products, if you can manage to remove the deposits with some sort of chelating shampoo maybe twice in one week, your strands have a quicker chance of returning to a normal Ph versus if you did only one wash with the chelating shampoo.

If you’ve got a relaxer with a lower Ph I believe it’s even more easier to get the normal Ph of your strands back to normal versus a no-lye that’s well over 12-13 on the Ph scale.

But, it’s a varying matter because some people are well versed enough with their regimen that they can bypass any issues, or they know what to do, and look it for any signs of impending damage, while some struggle to spot what the cause is, or do a bit more proactive research beforehand.

But then there’s the issue of how well your strands take to it. Sometimes it doesn’t particularly matter if your strands are fine or not. Some may need a higher Ph, some may need lower, espeacially if the products you use are well below the normal 4-5.5 Ph range, or if they’re over 5-6 Ph scale. And the only way to monitor that is to test your product mixes with some strips.

I use no-lye simply because most of the products I use have a Ph of 3-4, and I use ACV more often then not, so by the time I’m due for a relaxer the roots of my hair are so closed off that they rarely take to a lye treatment, even on the off chance I go to a professional salon. There’s times where my strands won’t completely take to even a no-lye treatment, but I try not to push it because my scalp is rather fickle, so I slightly overlap to get what didn’t straighten out to my liking on the first attempt. Sometimes I’ll use products well passed 5-6 on the PH scale and my cuticles are a lot more open and rough and when I relax, a lye treatment will take quicker than I suspected.

So it’s kind of something you have to gauge and monitor from month to month.

Hope this help. Sorry I couldn’t give a straightforward answer, but there’s a decent amount of variables to consider.
 

YvetteWithJoy

On break
I think it mostly depends on the Ph formulation of whatever relaxer you get, but I also think people should consider what products they use on a regular basis.

Both lye and no-lye leave deposits. Be they potassium, calcium, sodium, or lithium based.

I think it’s mostly a matter of how well and quickly you can get those deposits off of very fine textured strands. Concerning products, if you can manage to remove the deposits with some sort of chelating shampoo maybe twice in one week, your strands have a quicker chance of returning to a normal Ph versus if you did only one wash with the chelating shampoo.

If you’ve got a relaxer with a lower Ph I believe it’s even more easier to get the normal Ph of your strands back to normal versus a no-lye that’s well over 12-13 on the Ph scale.

But, it’s a varying matter because some people are well versed enough with their regimen that they can bypass any issues, or they know what to do, and look it for any signs of impending damage, while some struggle to spot what the cause is, or do a bit more proactive research beforehand.

But then there’s the issue of how well your strands take to it. Sometimes it doesn’t particularly matter if your strands are fine or not. Some may need a higher Ph, some may need lower, espeacially if the products you use are well below the normal 4-5.5 Ph range, or if they’re over 5-6 Ph scale. And the only way to monitor that is to test your product mixes with some strips.

I use no-lye simply because most of the products I use have a Ph of 3-4, and I use ACV more often then not, so by the time I’m due for a relaxer the roots of my hair are so closed off that they rarely take to a lye treatment, even on the off chance I go to a professional salon. There’s times where my strands won’t completely take to even a no-lye treatment, but I try not to push it because my scalp is rather fickle, so I slightly overlap to get what didn’t straighten out to my liking on the first attempt. Sometimes I’ll use products well passed 5-6 on the PH scale and my cuticles are a lot more open and rough and when I relax, a lye treatment will take quicker than I suspected.

So it’s kind of something you have to gauge and monitor from month to month.

Hope this help. Sorry I couldn’t give a straightforward answer, but there’s a decent amount of variables to consider.

No apologies! Many thanks. This is very helpful. I had no sense of the factors, and I really, really appreciate the thorough post.

I'm trying to determine whether it makes more sense to heat straighten every 2-3 weeks (around 20 times a year) or relax every 12 weeks (about 4 times a year).
 

VictoriousBrownFlower

Well-Known Member
No apologies! Many thanks. This is very helpful. I had no sense of the factors, and I really, really appreciate the thorough post.

I'm trying to determine whether it makes more sense to heat straighten every 2-3 weeks (around 20 times a year) or relax every 12 weeks (about 4 times a year).
My fine thin density hair can't stand much heat. If I use heat more than like once a month my ends get really worn. So for health reasons I would go with relaxing if you want your hair straight most of the time. I unlike some really do think it's the healthier of the two options but that's just for my hair.
 

YvetteWithJoy

On break
My fine thin density hair can't stand much heat. If I use heat more than like once a month my ends get really worn. So for health reasons I would go with relaxing if you want your hair straight most of the time. I unlike some really do think it's the healthier of the two options but that's just for my hair.

Thanks, sis. Very helpful. I'm starting to think so, too.

I just don't even know where to start with relaxing. I've learned too much to turn my hair back over to the "professionals." But I can't self-relax.
 

PlanetCybertron

Well-Known Member
Thanks, sis. Very helpful. I'm starting to think so, too.

I just don't even know where to start with relaxing. I've learned too much to turn my hair back over to the "professionals." But I can't self-relax.

I’m always here to help with learning to self relax if you need help. I have no problem posting a personal video if you need it, or finding step by step pictures.
 

PlanetCybertron

Well-Known Member
No apologies! Many thanks. This is very helpful. I had no sense of the factors, and I really, really appreciate the thorough post.

I'm trying to determine whether it makes more sense to heat straighten every 2-3 weeks (around 20 times a year) or relax every 12 weeks (about 4 times a year).

Hmmm that’s a good one.

Well in my opinion, you’d have to factor in manipulation, how quick or how long it’s going to take, how well you can get your hair to stabilize, and maybe changing up any technique to fit whichever one you choose.

With flat ironing I’ve noticed I manipulate my hair 10x more than When I relax.

On the plus side for flat ironing, it’s mostly hydrogen that you’re playing around with concerning your hair and it’s structures. Versus all that stuff I was saying concerning relaxers up above. So you’d mostly be focusing on keeping the moisture and protein levels in check, instead of having to worry about another 3-5 extra things versus a relaxer. You don’t have to worry about deposits, buil-up, chelating, fixing the Ph often, all that mess.

If you can get your hair straight faster than you can relax it, or vice versa, that would be something to consider too.

I think getting the moisture/protein balance correct in your hair would be easier just using heat than relaxing, but I definitely haven’t experimented with it before, I’m more or less just trying to visualize typical circumstances.

For fine hair, manipulation, and how well you can get the protein and moisture to keep those ends intact will probably be your biggest considerations. Definitely the manipulation part though.

For me personally, I can have my moisture/protein levels spot on, but if I manipulate my hair more than it can handle I get more breakage than if I have too much moisture or too protein.

So maybe weigh these three things, and how well they apply to your regimen and preferences:

•Moisture/protein balance
•Manipulation
•Time

See which one favors all three?
 
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LonDone

PS May 2017-???
Thanks this is an excellent excellent thread, @PlanetCybertron your science is getting more user friendly :) the long posts above are gold dust!

Have tried being a SHN, wasn't comfortable with straightening every 10 days or so and have been thinking about going back to relaxers bc I can't stand the frizz in this wet climate. Won't be making any decisions before the new year so I will definitely follow this thread keenly!
 

PlanetCybertron

Well-Known Member
Thanks this is an excellent excellent thread, @PlanetCybertron your science is getting more user friendly :) the long posts above are gold dust!

Have tried being a SHN, wasn't comfortable with straightening every 10 days or so and have been thinking about going back to relaxers bc I can't stand the frizz in this wet climate. Won't be making any decisions before the new year so I will definitely follow this thread keenly!

Oh thanks. You’re too kind.

I don’t refer to myself as a scientist although I’m in the STEM field with my studies and career path.

I prefer to call myself a person of deduction. Tying experiences with probable solutions to questions lol
 

SoforReal

Well-Known Member
Yay! Glad there are other fine haired ladies!! I have to start doing my own hair including relaxers now. The last time I was at the Dominican Salon to get a relaxer she yanked out a baseball size ball of hair combing my hair in the sink. I was LIVID!!! :swearing: Any suggestions to recover? :cry3:
 

GraceandJoy

Butterfly
Hello All, I like this thread....thank you OP! I mostly lurk but decided to chime in :). I have fine hair with medium density. I relax with Revlon Realistic mild, professional lye relaxer. Its the only relaxer I've ever used. I started using it in the 1990s. I used regular strength for many years and then switched to mild because regular was too strong. Since joining this forum, I tend to stretch my relaxers and can do so for up to 10-14 weeks. I've learned how to keep a proper protein/moisture balance and I bun my hair, a lot. It is thicker than it has been in decades. Up until age 40, my hair was waist length and full. I had 12 years of SERIOUS struggle, i.e. hair loss, balding, breakage, etc. In January of this year, my ponytail was waist length but I cut off several inches because it was uneven, tangled easily, and look scraggly. Initially, my goal was length at the expense of everything else; now my goals are healthy strands with overall fullness. I have also successfully grown out a large bald spot in my crown. Now I want the crown as long as the rest of my hair. My ultimate goal is a long, healthy braid that reaches waist length.
 

LonDone

PS May 2017-???
Okay. After researching, I'm going to go with no-lye.

Any lower-pH lines anyone can recommend?

What was the deciding factor re no-lye @YvetteWithJoy ?

I *think* relaxers are purposefully towards the higher end of the pH scale to enable them to work - @PlanetCybertron can clear that up, I'm sure.

You'll have to deal with the pH separately, possibly after relaxing but before neutralizing (@PlanetCybertron?) with the likes of Roux Porosity Control or summat similar - I remember reading about that on a thread a few years ago, will see if I can find the thread!
 

YvetteWithJoy

On break
What was the deciding factor re no-lye @YvetteWithJoy ?

I *think* relaxers are purposefully towards the higher end of the pH scale to enable them to work - @PlanetCybertron can clear that up, I'm sure.

You'll have to deal with the pH separately, possibly after relaxing but before neutralizing (@PlanetCybertron?) with the likes of Roux Porosity Control or summat similar - I remember reading about that on a thread a few years ago, will see if I can find the thread!

I don't want scalp chemical burns. I'd rather use no-lye, then, and just use a chelating shampoo to remove chemical deposits in the hair.
 

PlanetCybertron

Well-Known Member
What was the deciding factor re no-lye @YvetteWithJoy ?

I *think* relaxers are purposefully towards the higher end of the pH scale to enable them to work - @PlanetCybertron can clear that up, I'm sure.

You'll have to deal with the pH separately, possibly after relaxing but before neutralizing (@PlanetCybertron?) with the likes of Roux Porosity Control or summat similar - I remember reading about that on a thread a few years ago, will see if I can find the thread!

No no, you’re spot on.

There’s Thio relaxers that are around 9-11 on the Ph scale. You have to do a decent search for them. I’m too lazy to search at the moment.

And I’d agree, if you can neutralize after relaxing and before neutralizing go for it. I’ve done an ACV rinse before neutralizing. Couldn’t really feel the difference right off the bat, but the next day my products took to my hair basically like normal. I’m sure there’s a few other methods you can try.

The main process with chelation is that you’re trying to get something to bond with the ionic charges of metals, or heavy metals, so that it can be flushed out, removed, irrigated, or rinsed off with the aid of water, or some other solution. Typically the chelating agents are going to be organic of some sort. You can even use onions and garlic as they’re gentle chelating agents that are natural if that’s something that catches you’re attention.

I’ll have to look some up, or if you can conjure up some things you’d want to try them by all means. But the Roux Porosity Control was a very good suggestion too. Anything you can get your hands on under the 5 marker for Ph.


But the cool thing about Ph, is that it will go down the second you start running water through your hair. Scalp too. Albeit, not as low as our hair normally is, but waaaaaaay lower than with a relaxer still on it.

But if we’re talking regular calcium or potassium based relaxers like the majority of them out there, they’re all around the same Ph as LonDone stated.

But if you’re wanting to just do a no-lye and neutralize that’s perfectly fine too. It’s what I do, since I’m broke most of the time lol.
 

nymane

Well-Known Member
Okay. After researching, I'm going to go with no-lye.

Any lower-pH lines anyone can recommend?

I've only tried the first three lines listed below, but all are low pH (ranging from 3.5 - 5.5) lines. IMO having a low ph regimen is key to healthy relaxed hair.
  • Joico
  • Sojourn
  • L'anza
  • Kenra
  • Design Essentials
  • Avlon (i.e. Affirm and Keracare...for the most part)
  • Schwarzkopf professional
  • Enjoy Professional
 

Britt

Well-Known Member
No apologies! Many thanks. This is very helpful. I had no sense of the factors, and I really, really appreciate the thorough post.

I'm trying to determine whether it makes more sense to heat straighten every 2-3 weeks (around 20 times a year) or relax every 12 weeks (about 4 times a year).

If you're hair does well with the heat, I'd straighten it over getting a relaxer. Also every 2-3 weeks is not bad at all.
 

PlanetCybertron

Well-Known Member
Hubby says he likes the versatility of natural hair. He loves my curls, and he loves my hair when straight.

Back to considering being a straight haired natural.

I wonder if incorporating keratin treatments would help.

Wait a min. Are you not relaxed? If you aren’t, I’d definitely lean more towards the straightening over relaxing. Keratin treatments do wonders as well. I see no problem incorporating them into your regimen.


I don’t know why I was under the assumption that you were transitioning.
 
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