Speaking in Tongues---Should every be able to do it?

[Prudent1]

Just wanted to add too OP- your prayer language will initially be similar to a baby learning to speak. IOW, it may sound like babbling at first but will become clearer with time. When we pray in tongues, the distinction of speaking utilizing your brain (as you have done since infancy) vs this new way (from your soul) is just different. You will not be confused between the two.

 

[Prudent1]

Here are some resources for anyone interested. Let me say again, as a believer you are not obligated by God to speak in tongues no more than you are obligated to grow long hair!!! But, if you want to you can. What happens in your life is your experience so no comparisons and realize that some things may need to change before you are ready to receive this gift.
Filled with the Holy Spirit Prayer
Heavenly Father, I ask You to fill each of us with Your precious Holy Spirit. I ask You to fill each of us with all of the fruits of Your Holy Spirit including Your love, Your joy, Your peace, Your gentleness, Your goodness, Your meekness, Your faithfulness and Your self-control. Heavenly Father, in Jesus‘ Holy Name I ask You to fill me, and all those I am praying for with Your Holy Spirit Anointing and Power, cover us with Your presence, and to fill us and seal us with Your peace, character, and nature. I ask You to do all these things in the Name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To God Be the Glory. Amen!

Some resources that helped me...

http://www.amazon.com/Why-Tongues-Kenneth-E-Hagin/dp/0892760516
http://www.kcm.org/real-help/article/how-receive-baptism-holy-spirit
https://my.kcm.org/products/authors...deeper-understanding-of-praying-in-the-spirit

 

[crwnandglory]

Thanks Chelsea that makes me feel alot better.



So do you think these people are faking it or they believe so much that everybody can do it that they just start making noises thinking thats what it is and that it's connecting them to GOD? I mean it's so weird to me that no matter how hard I try to speak in tongues I can't do it.

I also notice that alot of them seem to be speaking a similar language. I mean it sounds the same to me. All some version of "OH Run Ta Shun a Bop to Lah! RRRah Bop to Shak" I mean why all the rolling R's, tons of syllables and the extra emphasis on them. Lol..I mean I'm laughing cause it's ridiculous to me. It's like they hear someone else do it and go home and practice making similar sounds.

I do believe some people can, but its so hard for me to believe that every one can do this.

I'm going to have to do some more research.

Thanks Alicia. My church also refers to Acts a lot. So am I a bad person if I don't speak in tongues and what type of church do you attend. Do I have to speak in tongues to be saved?

Lady, I wish I could hug you.

I often tell people that because I was not raised in church I was not/have not assimilated to the culture of church. I am saved, baptised, received the holy spirit and have a church home but I have too noticed that there is a culture in the church that is not always bibically based but is learned...especially in the black church. Anytime someone tries to assess whether or not you have the holy spirit by asking you to show it, I would say may not be following the word of God.

I too live in the DMV and attend a church where praise is central, people speak in tongues, are over come with the spirit, etc every service. Sometimes I wonder if SOME of the people are just showing off but I never doubt the fact that His presence/spirit is present in our services so most of the praise, tongues, etc is absolutely genuine. When I first got saved and started attending I felt so awkward because I didn't express my praise the way that they do (at that time). To stand next to someone who is literally overcome by the holy spirit made me feel like I was out of line for not expressing in the same manner. As I have grown in my faith I realize that not everyone has the same gifts, anointing or testimony. Furthermore, we praise differently based upon our gifts, testimonies and anointing. My praise has shifted and grown as I have shifted and grown and it did not come from my church's expectations but it is how my spirit responds to His glory.

IMO, what is most important is that you genuinely know Jesus for yourself. Develop a prayer life and know His word and you will not be easily deceived and you will be able to discern between His will and word even while in church, also knowing Jesus personally will bring out your gifts (whichever they may be) and praise will come naturally.

You are more than welcome to visit my church home!

 

[crwnandglory]

@GoddessMaker, you reminded me of the dude who was laying hands and praying for people at my boarding school. Some people fell after he laid hands on them and folks attended to them. He said the "Spirit was coming over them" hence the falling down. When he got to me he jerked me so hard. What the? I staggered back. He gently placed his hand on my head and pushed me again making me stagger back again at which point he hollered... "Do not resist the Spirit my sister!" I don't remember how that all ended. I might have just taken a seat so he'd quit jerking my head like it was made of rubber. I don't know when his big strong arm became the Spirit and I don't think that's how things happen.

Sorry to hijack OP.

Hey Nonie,

I read your post and wanted to share my personal experience. Occasionally, my Bishop will "lay hands" on people. I use to watch this act and see people fall out and thought :. One day I allowed him to lay hands on me and guess what happened...I fell out, lol! He didn't jerk my head or push me, he lightly touched me and I was overcome by the spirit. It was the most unique experience I have ever had and since then I have had several other experiences but I will say that when my spirit is open I do fully receive His spirit.

Come to think of it, I've witnessed my bros and sisters in Christ be overcome with the Spirit before the Bishop even touched them...

 

[nathansgirl1908]

I have always wondered why people desire the gift of tongues so much. I never really hear about people begging God for some of the other gifts that much...

 

[Nonie]

[FONT=&quot]

I have always wondered why people desire the gift of tongues so much. I never really hear about people begging God for some of the other gifts that much...

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[FONT=&quot]I don't either, nathansgirl1908. Especially because all the gifts of the Spirit are suppose to build up the church. In Acts where speaking in tongues is mentioned w/r/t the Holy Spirit, [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Holy Spirit and the Day of Pentecost[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2:1 Now 1 when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2:2 Suddenly 2 a sound 3 like a violent wind blowing 4 came from heaven 5 and filled the entire house where they were sitting. 2:3 And tongues spreading out like a fire 6 appeared to them and came to rest on each one of them. 2:4 All 7 of them were filled with the Holy Spirit, and they began to speak in other languages 8 as the Spirit enabled them. 9 2:5 Now there were devout Jews 10 from every nation under heaven residing in Jerusalem. 11 2:6 When this sound 12 occurred, a crowd gathered and was in confusion, 13 because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 2:7 Completely baffled, they said, 14 “Aren’t 15 all these who are speaking Galileans? 2:8 And how is it that each one of us hears them 16 in our own native language? 17 2:9 Parthians, Medes, Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and the province of Asia, 18 2:10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene, 19 and visitors from Rome, 20 2:11 both Jews and proselytes, 21 Cretans and Arabs – we hear them speaking in our own languages about the great deeds God has done!” 22 2:12 All were astounded and greatly confused, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 2:13 But others jeered at the speakers, 23 saying, “They are drunk on new wine!” 24 [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] (Acts 2)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Notice, they spoke in tongues so that the message of God could be communicated to those who would not have otherwise understood it because they spoke different tongues.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The second mention of speaking in tongues was when Peter went to Cornelius' house to speak to him and those of his household about God. So God's gift of tongues was again used for the purpose of converting his house. God used signs and miracles to communicate His word to unbelievers. Those who went with Peter who were already believers did not speak in tongues...which is why they were astonished. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Gentiles Receive the Holy Spirit[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on 125 all those who heard the message. 126 10:45 The 127 circumcised believers 128 who had accompanied Peter were greatly astonished 129 that 130 the gift of the Holy Spirit 131 had been poured out 132 even on the Gentiles, 10:46 for they heard them speaking in tongues and praising 133 God. Then Peter said, 10:47 “No one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, 134 can he?” 135 10:48 So he gave orders to have them baptized 136 in the name of Jesus Christ. 137 Then they asked him to stay for several days.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](Acts 10)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]This was a sign for the Jews at a time when the gospel was being shared without any Bibles.

(continued next post)
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[Nonie]

[FONT=&quot]You can see that in the following chapter where Peter explains to believers how God moved and changed the Gentiles:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Peter Defends His Actions to the Jerusalem Church[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11:1 Now the apostles and the brothers who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles too had accepted 1 the word of God. 2 11:2 So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, 3 the circumcised believers 4 took issue with 5 him, 11:3 saying, “You went to 6 uncircumcised men and shared a meal with 7 them.” 11:4 But Peter began and explained it to them point by point, 8 saying, 11:5 “I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision, 9 an object something like a large sheet descending, 10 being let down from heaven 11 by its four corners, and it came to me. 11:6 As I stared 12 I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild animals, reptiles, 13 and wild birds. 14 11:7 I also heard a voice saying to me, ‘Get up, Peter; slaughter 15 and eat!’ 11:8 But I said, ‘Certainly not, Lord, for nothing defiled or ritually unclean 16 has ever entered my mouth!’ 11:9 But the voice replied a second time from heaven, ‘What God has made clean, you must not consider 17 ritually unclean!’ 11:10 This happened three times, and then everything was pulled up to heaven again. 11:11 At that very moment, 18 three men sent to me from Caesarea 19 approached 20 the house where we were staying. 21 11:12 The Spirit told me to accompany them without hesitation. These six brothers 22 also went with me, and we entered the man’s house. 11:13 He informed us how he had seen an angel standing in his house and saying, ‘Send to Joppa and summon Simon, who is called Peter, 11:14 who will speak a message 23 to you by which you and your entire household will be saved.’ 11:15 Then as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on 24 them just as he did 25 on us at the beginning. 26 11:16 And I remembered the word of the Lord, 27 as he used to say, 28 ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 29 11:17 Therefore if God 30 gave them the same gift 31 as he also gave us after believing 32 in the Lord Jesus Christ, 33 who was I to hinder 34 God?” 11:18 When they heard this, 35 they ceased their objections 36 and praised 37 God, saying, “So then, God has granted the repentance 38 that leads to life even to the Gentiles.” 39

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[FONT=&quot](Acts 11)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The next time speaking in tongues is seen in the book of Acts is when Paul met disciples of John the Baptist. They knew about Jesus but had not accepted Him as their savior. They basically knew about Jesus the way those who know His story (history) but haven't accepted them as their savior know him. They had never heard of the Holy Spirit. So again, this was used as a sign:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Disciples of John the Baptist at Ephesus[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19:1 While 1 Apollos was in Corinth, 2 Paul went through the inland 3 regions 4 and came to Ephesus. 5 He 6 found some disciples there 7 19:2 and said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” 8 They replied, 9 “No, we have not even 10 heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 19:3 So Paul 11 said, “Into what then were you baptized?” “Into John’s baptism,” they replied. 12 19:4 Paul said, “John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, 13 that is, in Jesus.” 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, 19:6 and when Paul placed 14 his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came 15 upon them, and they began to speak 16 in tongues and to prophesy. 17 19:7 (Now there were about twelve men in all.) 18[/FONT]

(Acts 19)

[FONT=&quot]Earlier in this thread, I shared chapters from 1 Corinthians 12-14 where again the purpose of gifts is shared. Also one thing to remember is the Spirit gives the gifts according to His will. I don't think it's right to ask for gifts. I think we should trust God to give us the gift He wills. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I have heard people say that when you are baptized with the Holy Spirit you will speak in tongues. Again this is not accurate. Everyone who accepts Jesus Christ as Savior has had baptism of the Holy Spirit. That's how we become part of the Body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:13 makes this very clear. And then the chapter goes on to talk about how we then have different gifts from the Spirit that help us edify each other.
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[FONT=&quot](continued in next post)
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[Nonie]

[FONT=&quot]OK, compare the part in bold with the previous readings where Peter is explaining to the Jews what happened when he was in Cornelius' house. He says "And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning” (Acts 11:15). Also notice how when Paul is teaching us in 1 Corinthians 14 that the gifts should be used for the good of all and that tongues should not be used unless there's an interpreter, there's a warning not to be like children but to be mature.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]14:13 So then, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. 14:14 If 6 I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unproductive. 14:15 What should I do? 7 I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing praises with my spirit, but I will also sing praises with my mind. 14:16 Otherwise, if you are praising God with your spirit, how can someone without the gift 8 say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 14:17 For you are certainly giving thanks well, but the other person is not strengthened. 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you, 14:19 but in the church I want to speak five words with my mind to instruct others, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14:20 Brothers and sisters, 9 do not be children in your thinking. Instead, be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. 14:21 It is written in the law: “By people with strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, yet not even in this way will they listen to me,” 10 says the Lord. 14:22 So then, tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is not for unbelievers but for believers. 14:23 So if the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and unbelievers or uninformed people enter, will they not say that you have lost your minds? 14:24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or uninformed person enters, he will be convicted by all, he will be called to account by all. 14:25 The secrets of his heart are disclosed, and in this way he will fall down with his face to the ground and worship God, declaring, “God is really among you.”[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](1 Corinthians 14)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I think if people will study God's word prayerfully and ask Him to show them the truth, they will stop taking man's word as gospel. The mind is very complex and very powerful, but it's also easily influenced. I already shared about satanists and their way of making people curse God in tongues by inducing them to babble curses when masquerading as fellow parishioners next to one praying in tongues. I also believe that if you want something so badly, you make yourself vulnerable to Satan's wiles. I believe speaking in tongues can be self-induced, Satan-induced or even group induced. I think we need to be careful about coveting something so much that it becomes an idol. What's more, since most people who pray in tongues seems to do it loudly and in a way that is showy--when Jesus taught us not to pray like that and Paul also warns us against it unless one is there to interpret--we need to ask why this is. Our God is a humble and meek God. Showy, loud yelling is not how Father would have us pray, otherwise His Son would not have warned us against it. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Bible does not contradict itself, and if you study it, you will find how different parts support each other, and if you prayerfully ask Father to reveal His truth to you, you will find it and be so sure of it.[/FONT]

 

[nathansgirl1908]

I think if people will study God's word prayerfully and ask Him to show them the truth, they will stop taking man's word as gospel. The mind is very complex and very powerful, but it's also easily influenced. I already shared about satanists and their way of making people curse God in tongues by inducing them to babble curses when masquerading as fellow parishioners next to one praying in tongues. I also believe that if you want something so badly, you make yourself vulnerable to Satan's wiles. I believe speaking in tongues can be self-induced, Satan-induced or even group induced.

I had a dream a few years ago that confirms the statement in bold.

I think we need to be careful about coveting something so much that it becomes an idol. What's more, since most people who pray in tongues seems to do it loudly and in a way that is showy--when Jesus taught us not to pray like that and Paul also warns us against it unless one is there to interpret--we need to ask why this is. Our God is a humble and meek God. Showy, loud yelling is not how Father would have us pray, otherwise His Son would not have warned us against it. ]

. Yes!!!!!! I wholeheartedly agree!!!!

Your posts have been awesome on this subject!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[aribell]

[FONT=&quot]I have heard people say that when you are baptized with the Holy Spirit you will speak in tongues. Again this is not accurate. Everyone who accepts Jesus Christ as Savior has had baptism of the Holy Spirit. That's how we become part of the Body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:13 makes this very clear. And then the chapter goes on to talk about how we then have different gifts from the Spirit that help us edify each other.
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[FONT=&quot](continued in next post)
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I don't believe I Corinthians 12:13 is speaking of the "baptism of the Spirit" that Christians who believe in the baptism of the Spirit are talking about. In fact, that verse is speaking of being baptized into the Body of Christ. To say that all believers are baptized in the Spirit upon accepting Jesus as Lord is to essentially not believe in the baptism of the Spirit that, say, Pentecostals speak of. That's fine--many and perhaps even most Christian denominations don't believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit as Pentecostals and others would define it. I just wanted to highlight that those are different things.

 

[felic1]

Re: Speaking in Tongues---Should every1 be able to do it?

Hi Sis,

Speaking in tongues is a gift. Everyone has not received it. Everyone saved does not have this baptism. Do not feel condemned because you do not speak in tongues yet. God will give it to you, it just has not happened yet. It's hard to leave a church that has some characteristics that you like, while some behaviors seem really odd.Bless you!

 

[Nonie]

I don't believe I Corinthians 12:13 is speaking of the "baptism of the Spirit" that Christians who believe in the baptism of the Spirit are talking about. In fact, that verse is speaking of being baptized into the Body of Christ. To say that all believers are baptized in the Spirit upon accepting Jesus as Lord is to essentially not believe in the baptism of the Spirit that, say, Pentecostals speak of. That's fine--many and perhaps even most Christian denominations don't believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit as Pentecostals and others would define it. I just wanted to highlight that those are different things.

@nicola.kirwan, you are right, I don't believe in the way Pentecostals speak of baptism of the Holy Spirit because nowhere in the Bible do I see that definition they use. In the book of Acts as I shared, the gift of speaking in tongues was used to communicate the word of God and to confirm His presence to non-believing folk. (In other words, the gift was used for the sake of building the church, not self-edification.)

What I believe are Paul's words that "For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body. Whether Jews or Greeks or slaves 4 or free, we were all made to drink of the one Spirit." (1 Corinthians 12:13) I try to get my direction from the word of God rather than from teachings of denominations created by man. I have found as long as I return to the word of God, and test everything by scripture, I will usually find the truth. 1 Timothy 3:16-17 tells us "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

When Paul was speaking to the Corinthians, it was because the same thing we see today was going on. They were emphasizing some gifts of the Spirit over others. So he was warning them to stop dividing into cliques because we are all one Body of Christ! And to emphasize his point he reminded them that by one Spirit we were all baptized into the Body of Christ. And this happened when we received Christ and accepted Him into our lives and became heirs and sons of God. Paul points out that all believers have been baptized in the Spirit, he ends by listing all the gifts of the Spirit and how not everyone will be an apostle, a prophet, a teacher, a miracle worker, have healing powers, speak in tongues, prophesy.

In Acts 1:8, Jesus said, "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to me in Jerusalem, and all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Notice that Jesus tells us that when we receive the power of the Holy Spirit we become witnesses to the end of the earth. This seems to be in line with spreading of the message that Paul says is the purpose of the gifts of the Spirit.

See what Peter says after some people saw those speaking in tongues and thought they were drunk:

(continued next post)

 

[Nonie]

Peter’s Address on the Day of Pentecost
2:14 But Peter stood up 25 with the eleven, raised his voice, and addressed them: “You men of Judea 26 and all you who live in Jerusalem, 27 know this 28 and listen carefully to what I say. 2:15 In spite of what you think, these men are not drunk, 29 for it is only nine o’clock in the morning. 30 2:16 But this is what was spoken about through the prophet Joel: 31

2:17 ‘And in the last days 32 it will be,’ God says,
‘that I will pour out my Spirit on all people, 33
and your sons and your daughters will prophesy,
and your young men will see visions,
and your old men will dream dreams.
2:18 Even on my servants, 34 both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. 35
2:19 And I will perform wonders in the sky 36 above
and miraculous signs 37 on the earth below,
blood and fire and clouds of smoke.
2:20 The sun will be changed to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the great and glorious 38 day of the Lord comes.
2:21 And then 39 everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’ 40

2:22 “Men of Israel, 41 listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man clearly attested to you by God with powerful deeds, 42 wonders, and miraculous signs 43 that God performed among you through him, just as you yourselves know – 2:23 this man, who was handed over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you executed 44 by nailing him to a cross at the hands of Gentiles. 45 2:24 But God raised him up, 46 having released 47 him from the pains 48 of death, because it was not possible for him to be held in its power. 49 2:25 For David says about him,

‘I saw the Lord always in front of me, 50
for he is at my right hand so that I will not be shaken.
2:26 Therefore my heart was glad and my tongue rejoiced;
my body 51 also will live in hope,
2:27 because you will not leave my soul in Hades, 52
nor permit your Holy One to experience 53 decay.
2:28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will make me full of joy with your presence.’
54

2:29 “Brothers, 55 I can speak confidently 56 to you about our forefather 57 David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 2:30 So then, because 58 he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath to seat one of his descendants 59 on his throne, 60 2:31 David by foreseeing this 61 spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, 62 that he was neither abandoned to Hades, 63 nor did his body 64 experience 65 decay. 66 2:32 This Jesus God raised up, and we are all witnesses of it. 67 2:33 So then, exalted 68 to the right hand 69 of God, and having received 70 the promise of the Holy Spirit 71 from the Father, he has poured out 72 what you both see and hear. 2:34 For David did not ascend into heaven, but he himself says,

‘The Lord said to my lord,
“Sit 73 at my right hand
2:35 until I make your enemies a footstool 74 for your feet.”’ 75

2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know beyond a doubt 76 that God has made this Jesus whom you crucified 77 both Lord 78 and Christ.” 79

The Response to Peter’s Address

2:37 Now when they heard this, 80 they were acutely distressed 81 and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “What should we do, brothers?” 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each one of you be baptized 82 in the name of Jesus Christ 83 for 84 the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 85 2:39 For the promise 86 is for you and your children, and for all who are far away, as many as the Lord our God will call to himself.” 2:40 With many other words he testified 87 and exhorted them saying, “Save yourselves from this perverse 88 generation!” 2:41 So those who accepted 89 his message 90 were baptized, and that day about three thousand people 91 were added. 92

(Acts 2:14-41)

When those who had thought the tongue speakers were drunk then asked how they too can experience what the others had experienced and they were told to repent and they too will receive the Holly Spirit. Notice the last sentence, "So those who received his message were baptized and that day about 3,000 people were added." (Remember this when I talk about John the Baptist later on.)

(continued next post)

 

[Nonie]

You see, I think to understand the Bible you have to read everything in its context and you have to study it. Every miracle in the Bible was done for the purpose of showing God's glory to a disbelieving world. The speaking of tongues that people from different countries could understand was done for a purpose: for the word of God to be conveyed to those who would have otherwise not understood it, and for the purpose of confirming to a people who didn't believe the fact that God's power was in that place. When Jesus touched people and healed them, they would be converted and would praise God. I believe God's wonders happen for a purpose not just because. And I believe Paul that among believers the gifts of prophesy, tongues, etc are meant for the growth of the church, and if they aren't uplifting the church, then they fail to do the serve the purpose for which they are meant.

Lastly, remember how John the Baptist always talked about Jesus as the one who will come and baptize with the Holy Spirit not with water? I believe then that when Jesus talked of baptism, it was with the Holy Spirit just as John had prophesied. Let's look at John's words:

"John answered them, saying "I baptize with water, but there stands one among you whom you do not know. It is He who, coming after me, is preferred before me, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose." These things were done in Bethabara beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing. The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world!" This is He of whom I say 'After me comes a man who is preferred before me, for he was before me.' I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water. And John bore witness, saying, "I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. I did not know Him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, "Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit." And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God" (John 1:26-34).

And then see what Jesus says in Mark 16:14-16:

14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen. 15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

(bold, mine)

(Continued next post)

 

[Nonie]

So I truly believe that baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs when we believe and accept Jesus as our Savior. That Jesus was the one who baptized with the Holy Spirit IMO means it was happening while He was on earth. It isn't the same as being filled with the Spirit. Baptism of the Spirit occurs when you get saved, and you get saved when you believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and accept Him as Savior. When you are filled with the Spirit of God you are controlled by the Spirit and are empowered to do great things and this is where gifts (of tongues, of prophesy, of teaching etc) come in--from one being filled with the Spirit. There are examples in the Bible of the Spirit of God filling people and then they manifest the gifts of the Spirit:

The Birth of John the Baptist

57 When it was time for Elizabeth to have her baby, she gave birth to a son. 58 Her neighbors and relatives heard that the Lord had shown her great mercy, and they shared her joy.

59 On the eighth day they came to circumcise the child, and they were going to name him after his father Zechariah, 60 but his mother spoke up and said, “No! He is to be called John.”

61 They said to her, “There is no one among your relatives who has that name.”

62 Then they made signs to his father, to find out what he would like to name the child. 63 He asked for a writing tablet, and to everyone’s astonishment he wrote, “His name is John.” 64 Immediately his mouth was opened and his tongue set free, and he began to speak, praising God. 65 All the neighbors were filled with awe, and throughout the hill country of Judea people were talking about all these things. 66 Everyone who heard this wondered about it, asking, “What then is this child going to be?” For the Lord’s hand was with him.

Zechariah’s Song
67 His father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and prophesied:

68 “Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel,
because he has come to his people and redeemed them.
69 He has raised up a horn[c] of salvation for us
in the house of his servant David
70 (as he said through his holy prophets of long ago),
71 salvation from our enemies
and from the hand of all who hate us—
72 to show mercy to our ancestors
and to remember his holy covenant,
73 the oath he swore to our father Abraham:
74 to rescue us from the hand of our enemies,
and to enable us to serve him without fear
75 in holiness and righteousness before him all our days.
76 And you, my child, will be called a prophet of the Most High;
for you will go on before the Lord to prepare the way for him,
77 to give his people the knowledge of salvation
through the forgiveness of their sins,
78 because of the tender mercy of our God,
by which the rising sun will come to us from heaven
79 to shine on those living in darkness
and in the shadow of death,
to guide our feet into the path of peace.”

80 And the child grew and became strong in spirit[d]; and he lived in the wilderness until he appeared publicly to Israel.

(Luke 1:57-80)

Another example is seen in Acts 4 where again the filling of the Spirit brought with it the gift of wisdom/teaching:

1 The priests and the captain of the temple guard and the Sadducees came up to Peter and John while they were speaking to the people. 2 They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people, proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead. 3 They seized Peter and John and, because it was evening, they put them in jail until the next day. 4 But many who heard the message believed; so the number of men who believed grew to about five thousand.

5 The next day the rulers, the elders and the teachers of the law met in Jerusalem. 6 Annas the high priest was there, and so were Caiaphas, John, Alexander and others of the high priest’s family. 7 They had Peter and John brought before them and began to question them: “By what power or what name did you do this?”

8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! 9 If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a man who was lame and are being asked how he was healed, 10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 Jesus is

“‘the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the cornerstone.’[a]

12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

13 When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus. 14 But since they could see the man who had been healed standing there with them, there was nothing they could say. 15 So they ordered them to withdraw from the Sanhedrin and then conferred together. 16 “What are we going to do with these men?” they asked. “Everyone living in Jerusalem knows they have performed a notable sign, and we cannot deny it. 17 But to stop this thing from spreading any further among the people, we must warn them to speak no longer to anyone in this name.”

18 Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. 19 But Peter and John replied, “Which is right in God’s eyes: to listen to you, or to him? You be the judges! 20 As for us, we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard.”

21 After further threats they let them go. They could not decide how to punish them, because all the people were praising God for what had happened. 22 For the man who was miraculously healed was over forty years old.

(Acts 4:1-21)

(Continued in next post)

 

[Nonie]

And of course Acts 2 tells us how being filled with the Spirit led to speaking of tongues:

3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.
5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.

(Acts 2:3-5)

And we see the gift of teaching after Saul was filled with the Spirit in Acts 9:10-22:

10 In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”

“Yes, Lord,” he answered.

11 The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”

13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem. 14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”

15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”

17 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength.
Saul in Damascus and Jerusalem

Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus. 20 At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God. 21 All those who heard him were astonished and asked, “Isn’t he the man who raised havoc in Jerusalem among those who call on this name? And hasn’t he come here to take them as prisoners to the chief priests?” 22 Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Messiah.

(Acts 9)

So tongues are not as a result of baptism with the Holy Spirit. Baptism with the Holy Spirit is what happens when we repent to Jesus and give our lives to Christ. When people repented to John the Baptist, they got baptized with water; when people repent to Christ, they get baptized with the Holy Spirit.

John answered, saying, to all "I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire" (Luke 3:16).

And John bore witness, saying, "I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and he remained upon him. I did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, "Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit." And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God" (John 1:32-34)!

So 1 Corinthians 12:13 speaks of the same baptism with the Spirit that the prophets of old and John the Baptist spoke of--the one that Jesus was to bring. What happened at Pentacost was the filling with the Holy Spirit thus equipping God's people with power to do His work and making them witnesses just as Jesus promised in Acts 1:8:

"But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to me in Jerusalem, and all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
​

 

[Laela]

What is also very important is to be open to the Holy Spirit to reveal to one's spirit what thus says the Lord. That is very critical in receiving a Rhema Word from God that is not there to be 'seen' or 'read' but is definitely 'understood.' This is where many people like to think 'some Christians' think they have a better relationship with God than another. When all it is, is that person chose to receive the Word into their spirit...not just read it.

"We live by faith, not by sight" surely applies to this topic!

ITA that context is very important...

You see, I think to understand the Bible you have to read everything in its context and you have to study it.