Submission- what does it mean to you?

[Southernbella.]

Off topic, but lauren, your hair is gorgeous!

Thank you! So is yours!

 

[Southernbella.]

I don't have a problem submitting if the man's talk matches his walk. I do have a problem with males that use that word loosely and don't actively worship God.

And that's the dillemma (I agree with you by the way). The Bible doesn't say that women are to submit only if the husband acts right. So if you truly believe in going by the Book, you will submit to the man you marry, whether he worships God or not.

Someone on another board asked a question about her friend. The friend's husband felt like she was spending too much time at church and wanted her to stop going. The lady on the board advised her friend not to listen to her husband. The friend went to her pastor, who advised her to listen to her husband (which technically lines up with scripture), but the friend kept going anyway. Was she out of order?

I gave the lady my opinion, which was that her friend was wrong. If she married him, knowing he didn't believe the same things she did, then she has to reap the consequences of that decision. That's the part about submission that could make you miserable.

 

[sithembile]

And that's the dillemma (I agree with you by the way). The Bible doesn't say that women are to submit only if the husband acts right. So if you truly believe in going by the Book, you will submit to the man you marry, whether he worships God or not.

Someone on another board asked a question about her friend. The friend's husband felt like she was spending too much time at church and wanted her to stop going. The lady on the board advised her friend not to listen to her husband. The friend went to her pastor, who advised her to listen to her husband (which technically lines up with scripture), but the friend kept going anyway. Was she out of order?

I gave the lady my opinion, which was that her friend was wrong. If she married him, knowing he didn't believe the same things she did, then she has to reap the consequences of that decision. That's the part about submission that could make you miserable.

ITA, we need to be sure we can submit to a man BEFORE we marry them, we need t be sure they are submitted to God.

 

[sillygurl18]

If we listen to GOD and marry who HE wants us to marry, we won't have to worry about marrying a man who isn't walking the walk, listening to God, a man after God's own heart and the such. Which in turn means we won't have to worry about if our man is right or wrong although nobody's perfect and we're all bound to make mistakes (daily) but thank God that we are justified by faith. Romans 5:1.

I agree with everything here. Many women do have a problem with the word submit mainly because a lot of men read that verse but stop before they get to the part THEY need to do. That's all women here, but if we read the word for ourselves and stop trying to make it fit what WE want to do and read it for what it says, we'd be alright. That's a different post all together.

 

[firecracker]

And that's the dillemma (I agree with you by the way). The Bible doesn't say that women are to submit only if the husband acts right. So if you truly believe in going by the Book, you will submit to the man you marry, whether he worships God or not.

I didn't say the man had to act right. I am not marrying nor submitting to a blundering fool. If his talk doesn't match his walk I am out. If we are not evenly yoked I am not getting married again ever.
I also have a story. My sister at church husband told her not to tithe. She was ill and confused. She went to your Pastor he told her to listen to her husband. Her prayers would be her tithe. God worked it out. He is a member of the church now. God is good.

 

[Southernbella.]

I didn't say the man had to act right. I am not marrying nor submitting to a blundering fool. If his talk doesn't match his walk I am out. If we are not evenly yoked I am not getting married again ever.
I also have a story. My sister at church husband told her not to tithe. She was ill and confused. She went to your Pastor he told her to listen to her husband. Her prayers would be her tithe. God worked it out. He is a member of the church now. God is good.

Amen! It's good to know that there are some pastors who have it right. I can think of a few who would have told her to tithe anyway, lest she be struck down.
That's another story.

 

[firecracker]

Lauren my pastor is the truth and funny as all get out. I have a thing about submission as I was with someone for 8 years that used that word too loosely. He believed in that mean muslim woman Shukara Ali. She wrote that book talking about slap your woman. He was trying to mix up all types of doctrines. I am really cautious now after encountering someone that I truly thought believe and worshiped God.

 

[MysTori]

I don't want to quote your whole message b/c it would take up more space, but BRAVO SYNTHIA! I just learned a thing or two today that will take me a long way. You should write more of these in your own non-reply-to thread so that we can use them as references when needed (Hint of Wisdom). Thanks again for the info!

 

[Divine Inspiration]

bumping for Owest

 

[Mariaat40]

Honestly? We submit to eachother.

This might not be a popular opinion, but I think the church (run by men) has overly focused on the role of the wife to submit, when the Bible clearly states that we are to submit to one another.

This is how my husband of 21 years and I live out our marriage. Interestingly enough, when were engaged my mother-in-law gave me the book "Heirs Together" to read. It promotes the idea of mutual submission within a marriage.

 

[Southernbella.]

This is how my husband of 21 years and I live out our marriage. Interestingly enough, when were engaged my mother-in-law gave me the book "Heirs Together" to read. It promotes the idea of mutual submission within a marriage.

I've never heard of that book, but I will definitely check it out!

 

[Mariaat40]

I've never heard of that book, but I will definitely check it out!

Here's a description:

Heirs Together
Applying the Biblical Principle of Mutual Submission in Your Marriage
by Patricia Gundry


Well-written and thoroughly researched, Heirs Together unfolds the biblical case for equality and mutuality in marriage. Gundry combines an explanation of Bible passages with practical advice about how to work out mutual submission in daily life. Suitcase Books, 200 pages.

 

[Southernbella.]

Here's a description:

Heirs Together
Applying the Biblical Principle of Mutual Submission in Your Marriage
by Patricia Gundry


Well-written and thoroughly researched, Heirs Together unfolds the biblical case for equality and mutuality in marriage. Gundry combines an explanation of Bible passages with practical advice about how to work out mutual submission in daily life. Suitcase Books, 200 pages.

Thank you! I am definitely picking this up this weekend.

 

[Divine Inspiration]

bumping for Sleek&Bouncy (?)

 

[cocoberry10]

I'm so glad you asked me about this! I was just talking to my Mom about what believe the ideal dynamics between a husband and wife should be.

I actually don't submit to much authority, but I WILL submit to my man.

I think God created in woman the desire to admire and look up to her husband. I love seeing the man I'm with as a hero.

But I will only marry/date a man I deeply respect and see as a strong, masculine leader.

Everyone doesn't deserve submission.

If I respect and love him, then, I have no trouble following his lead -- because I'm going to be such a driving force behind that leadership.

It's a fallacy to believe leaders are dictators and know everything. They don't, which is why every leader needs a wingman and every husband/man needs a helpmeet/wife/woman.


To me women are more complex than men and have a variety of intelligences, talents, strengths. Our minds are crafted in a way where we can handle many things at one time. All this makes us perfectly suited to be helpmeets.

A helpmeet to me inspires, challenges, and nurtures her man. She is vigilant and is always watching where his leadership is going. If she sees that his judgement is off or they are going down a wrong path, then she has to re-direct him.

Now, this is where the Esther-effect comes in . I believe every woman has to be able to work the Esther-effect (better known as whip appeal) on her husband. Or there's going to be some trouble. You know how Esther stood before the powerful king, and he saw her, extended the scepter, and said whatever you want it's yours? Well, I can't be with a man unless I can whip him. If something is going awry, I need to be able to get him to listen to me and hear my wisdom, whether it's about money, or retirement, or a simple vacation.

There can be no submission to man without his ability to periodically defer to me.

And the husband should know this --- because God has commanded him to submit to the wife. This involves the surrendering or heart that makes it possible for him to be whipped and "extend the scepter" in times of impending crisis.

Leaders are rarely the smartest people in an alliance. (just look at bush). They are the figureheads and the gutsy ones who have to carry the burden of leadership on their shoulders. But they always have a wise counsel at their side (the wife ... and in Bush's case ..Cheney) who's can direct stuff and confirm judgement, etc.

So, the man needs to understand that. It's a great responsiblity to lead and he should be humbled and honored when a woman, as great as she is, respects him enough to put her future in his hands.

In turn, he should respect her and her wisdom as a helpmeet and listen to her advice when she delivers it.

I don't think a woman should abuse this Esther-effect like Delilah did. Or try to always direct the man.

I think the husband as leader and wife as submitted helpmeet is one of the most beautiful dynamics ever created.

They can build powerful alliances togehter if only people knew how to work it properly.

Now, really, what do I know ...I'm not married . But I sure wanna be, and I've thought a lot about this and have a whole philsophy.

It's very idealistic.... so I hope when I'm married I can translate my idealism into reality.

It is indeed difficult to find a man who's leaderhisp and strength you respect and who respects you.

I've been with men who didn't respect my talents ..who were competitive and hated when I outdid them in something. This is someone who did not understand the glory of a helpmeet. Women are some of the most powerful creatures on Earth and if a male leader doesn't recognize that submission doesn't equal to inferioriority ..then that's a shame and he's going to miss out.

I hope 2006 is the year I find my mate!

Wow, what powerful words!

 

[Shimmie]

It means, "Honey, I trust you and I believe in you."

One of the most loving things that I can do as a wife is to affirm my husband as a man and that I do believe in him and that I trust him.

Yes, I do expect and do intend to be a part of 'our' decision making; neither of us are puppets or robots. He's not going to want me to be a doormat anyway. But the 'ultimate' decisions should be his.

Of course it will be a challenge. I've been the only decisonal maker all of my adult life as a divorced parent. But I'm willing to lay down my arms and yield to him; and allow him to be the head and support him all the way.

It's my job to pray and keep him covered.

 

[live2bgr8]

Co- Signing... That's pretty much how it works between my husband and myself... When a man believes that he "should love his wife as Christ loves the church", it's easier...

My husband makes decisions with my input... I truly believe that he sees me as a counselor or advisor, and I respect him as a leader. More importantly, we're friends.

We discuss everything that affects our family and each other openly. We're still a work in progress, but God's grace is what moves us to co-submit to His will for our lives.

Honestly? We submit to eachother.

This might not be a popular opinion, but I think the church (run by men) has overly focused on the role of the wife to submit, when the Bible clearly states that we are to submit to one another. I used to believe that when I got married, it would be sooooo hard to submit and obey, and that I would disagree with a lot of things and have to be on my knees (praying ) all the time and that I'd have to silently manipulate the situation.

You know what? It wasn't like that. At least, not as much as I thought. My husband and I are equal partners. I thank God that he gave me a man who isn't all "Me man. You woman. Submit to me!" I know some of them, and their wives are miserable. I see these men who puff out their chests and act like the king, all while their wives are looking all meek and sad in the back. Or these couples who make a big show of submission, so that you know who's running things. It's really not that serious, to be honest. Submission is a private matter between you and your mate. When the wife is truly submitted, and the husband is also submitted, you will see two happy people who are secure in their relationship and don't have to act.

If you have a relationship with God, and you choose the right man, you can be confident in the fact that that man is listening to God and that he has the wisdom to make decisions when he needs to, or that he is man enough to defer to you when he needs to. Also, he should be strong enough to handle gentle criticism, and you have to be astute enough to know when it's the right time, etc. It takes years, and you may never fully be in synch, but that's part of the journey.

I'm not saying that I never do submit, but you shouldn't constantly be at war with yourself or with your husband over everything. And your husband shouldn't feel like he controls you or owns you or that he's better or smarter than you. Really, you should be equals. All the while you're treating him like the king and man of the house, he should be treating you like a queen and the woman of the house. It goes back and forth, constantly.

My main point is that choosing the right man is KEY. If you do that, the journey will be so much easier. Also, a lot of the things you might read about submission will be one-sided, as if you are the only one who should do it. Just eat the meat and spit out the rest.

 

[live2bgr8]

Ok, I just talked to my husband about this subject, and his opinion is this: Submission is not about who makes the final decision. It's about both the husband and wife being submitted to God so that you know when God is speaking and who he's speaking through. Sometimes God speaks through the husband, and the wife has to be in tune with God to know that it's Him and vise versa. As you talk and listen to eachother in each situation, these things should become clear, and nobody should ever have to play any games or manipulate the other. He also thinks most people come into marriage with the wrong idea about submission, and that each couple has to do what is best for their own marriage, not what they've heard or seen from others.

Amen, amen, amen

 

[upandcoming]

Okay, these are my thoughts. Two things.

Number One:

I think I often times look at the word submission and immediately think of woman and men but REALLY I am focusing on submitting to my Lord and Savior before submitting to a man. If our relationship is supposed to mirror Jesus' relationship with us/the church, then how can I have a Christ-centered relationship if I don't have a relationship with HIM? What am I going to mirror?

Number Two:
Sometimes men take submission too far. Submission DOES NOT mean domination, abuse, complete control. In fact, SUBMISSION as the way I interpet it is COMPLETE DEVOTION, COMPLETE LOVE, and STRENGTH. In Ephesians 5: 22 - 33

About Wives:

22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

About Husbands:

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word,


27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body.

31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."[c] 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

If you have a Christ-centered HUSBAND, then the submission will be CHRIST-centered and there's NOTHING to fear because HE will be trying his BEST and most importantly, the HOLY SPIRIT will dwell within him and intercede when needed.

So before we marry, we should make SURE that man is walking with God. Things won't be perfect with a Christ-centered man because we will stumble, but with Christ within us, it's SO much more fullfilling I think.