WHAT EXACTLY IS HEAT TRAINING AND HOW DOES IT DIFFER FROM HEAT DAMAGE!

[Mandy4610]

so whats the conclusion? heat train = damaged hair and relaxer= damaged hair? I dont feel like reading. Hope there isnt much hyprocrisy in this thread

Hey, Different view points have been given, might be helpful to have a quick read. We were not discussing relaxers so there might not be enough information here on that.

 

[nikolite]

Hmmmm, I see what you mean by that question. I guess the answer is different for everyone.
Some factors that could bring me to the conclusion that my hair is damaged are: breakage, splits, dry, brittle, doesn't retain length, thining, excessive shedding, limp etc. Just some thoughts.

I think a good definition for pretty much everyone on this site is damage = anything permanent that contributes to breakage, since everyone's main goal is to grow their hair long. In that sense, relaxed and heat-trained hair isn't damaged.

But technically, they are both still damaging the hair in a purely scientific sense. I also think damage means permanent, not temporary, so dry or limp hair isn't really damage to me.

 

[Poohbear]

Definitely see your point. Another question though - couldn't a loosened curl be defined as limp? Or, more limp that your natural texture? I guess for me since I know why my hair is different I would feel it's damaged. Like, I don't think a curl loosened from henna is damaged because it's due to weight, you haven't actually altered the structure of the hair, and it's a temporary change. Yes, I know that some people can have their hair revert eventually from heat but often this is not the case.

But this is the thing... you can have limp thin hair without ever ever ever using heat nor relaxers. It may be due to something like genetics or possibly poor diet but you can have limp loosened hair texture without heat or relaxers.

 

[Aireen]

But this is the thing... you can have limp thin hair without ever ever ever using heat nor relaxers. It may be due to something like genetics or possibly poor diet but you can have limp loosened hair texture without heat or relaxers.

Or products like gels, certain moisturizers, etc.

 

[EllePixie]

But this is the thing... you can have limp thin hair without ever ever ever using heat nor relaxers. It may be due to something like genetics or possibly poor diet but you can have limp loosened hair texture without heat or relaxers.

Right, which is why the indication of a change to your hair is key. A lot of the time when people say, "My hair is doing xyz," I ask them how their hair is normally. I have random straight/wavy pieces of hair throughout my head, but I've had these since I had a twa, so I know they aren't heat damage. But if you do something to your hair, no matter what it is, and your hair changes, then obviously you've altered it - so in the case of heat you can conclude that it's from the bonds being altered.

 

[EllePixie]

Or products like gels, certain moisturizers, etc.

Also true, which is why it's important to understand the chemistry of your hair so you know why it has changed.

For me, it's all about knowing your hair. If I use my steamer and my hair suddenly gets poofy, I know it's because I have used too much moisture, and need a shot of protein to "get my hair back to normal."

 

[helixhoney]

I'm not trying to be snarky, but I don't see why the focus so much on damaged hair, as opposed to BREAKING hair. Broken bonds is a form of strand altercation that can be considered damaged, as is split ends, holey strands, thinning ends or strands, sometimes even single strand knots.

I personally accept that almost anything can cause my strands to go into a weakened state in some way: combing, brushing, under conditioning, over conditioning, too much protein, too little protein, too much manipulation, leaving it to shrink, trying to keep it stretched, not enough glycerin, too much glycerin...even the weather. But because I only worry about retention, I focus on going the route that causes the least BREAKAGE.

...and I still battle with retention despite me keeping an eye on breakage and trying to mitigate that with DCing, rollersetting, washing and going, etc. It's just that I experience less breakage with certain regimens than others. And the regimen I choose even depends on what season it is.

If your goal is having long hair, ain't it easier just to concentrate on minimizing breakage, rather than these discussions on forms of damage? I mean, its helpful to know all these forms of strand altercation, but it really comes down to what each person's hair can tolerate to not break off, right?

And we've seen people who have broken quite a few bonds, and it still retain length. So....you know...hey, heat works for some, as twistouts work for others, as relaxers work for others, as wigs work for others, as cornrows work for others, as bunning works for others...etc

 

[dicapr]

I'm not trying to be snarky, but I don't see why the focus so much on damaged hair, as apposed to BREAKING hair. Broken bonds is a form of strand altercation that can be considered damaged, as is split ends, holey strands, thinning ends or strands, sometimes even single strand knots.

I personally accept that almost anything can cause my strands to go into a weakened state in some way: combing, brushing, under conditioning, over conditioning, too much protein, too little protein, too much manipulation, leaving it to shrink, trying to keep it stretched, not enough glycerin, too much glycerin...even the weather. But because I only worry about retention, I focus on going the route that causes the least BREAKAGE.

...and I still battle with retention despite me keeping an eye on breakage and trying to mitigate that with DCing, rollersetting, washing and going, etc. It's just that I experience less breakage with certain regimens than others. And the regimen I choose even depends on what season it is.

If your goal is having long hair, ain't it easier just to concentrate on minimizing breakage, rather than these discussions on forms of damage? I mean, its helpful to know all these forms of strand altercation, but it really comes down to what each person's hair can tolerate to not break off, right?

And we've seen people who have broken quite a few bonds, and it still retain length. So....you know...hey, heat works for some, as twistouts work for others, as relaxers work for others, as wigs work for others, as cornrows work for others, as bunning works for others...etc

Thanks. Everyone in some form of another has damage done to thier hair-combing, brushing, heat, weather, relaxing, ect. Nobody has damage free hair.

 

[tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT]

Also, I see that ** and a few others think that people are in here "high-horsing" or whatever. I'm not sure if that's in reference to what I've said or not, and quite frankly I could care less. But what I DO care about is correct information being passed along to others in regards to hair care, tis my responses. And, if that's high-horsing then so be it.

I do understand that SSK's and tangles run rampant among those with tighter textures. I've had my fair share of those issues which is why I opt to keep my hair stretched (via twist/braid outs and rollersets) which works out perfectly for me in terms of less SSK's, less tangles, and more length retention, but I understand that not even those style options can help some people.

So my stance is not really bashing, it's more of calling a spade a spade.

i totally wanna start high-horsing.... priss gurrrrrl how would i go about it???

i love your posts....

 

[Aireen]

I personally accept that almost anything can cause my strands to go into a weakened state in some way: combing, brushing, under conditioning, over conditioning, too much protein, too little protein, too much manipulation, leaving it to shrink, trying to keep it stretched, not enough glycerin, too much glycerin...even the weather.

Agreed. Even NOT doing all these things and leaving your hair totally alone will cause knots and matting which can be described as damage. An example of a knot which frayed the hair to cause damage is below.

 

[Aireen]

Nobody has damage free hair.

Case and point.

 

[EllePixie]

Case and point.

Yep, and no one is saying they are above and beyond damage. Which is why the holier than thou perception is laughable and sad at the same time. Anywho...carry on!

 

[LuvlyRain3]

I have been lurking in this thread since it first started hoping to be enlightened but now I'm more confused than ever. I always thought that heat damage was caused by destroying the hydrogen bonds in the hair leaving the hair dry,brittle and prone to splits ands breakage. I didn't know that it was the actual protein bonds being destroyed. Sometimes hair care really confuses me. Another thing that I have to look into.

 

[Poohbear]

Agreed. Even NOT doing all these things and leaving your hair totally alone will cause knots and matting which can be described as damage. An example of a knot which frayed the hair to cause damage is below.

I hate those darn things!!!! :axehunter:

 

[Rei]

Also, I see that Rei and a few others think that people are in here "high-horsing" or whatever. I'm not sure if that's in reference to what I've said or not, and quite frankly I could care less. But what I DO care about is correct information being passed along to others in regards to hair care, tis my responses. And, if that's high-horsing then so be it.

I do understand that SSK's and tangles run rampant among those with tighter textures. I've had my fair share of those issues which is why I opt to keep my hair stretched (via twist/braid outs and rollersets) which works out perfectly for me in terms of less SSK's, less tangles, and more length retention, but I understand that not even those style options can help some people.

So my stance is not really bashing, it's more of calling a spade a spade.

Its fine. If one is calling a spade a spade, then call it everywhere. not just on one topic. Just sayin. I'm gonna leave this one alone. You ladies do you

 

[DDTexlaxed]

Here's a pic of my heat damaged/trained hair...
potato-potahto.

Your hair is gorgeous. This just goes to show that the heat training method can work if done properly. Thank you.

 

[Mandy4610]

In the end, its all good as long as we have our hair the way we want

There is no one right answer, but all the responses are helpful and help to make informed decisions of what we wanna do.

 

[virtuenow]

Here's a pic of my heat damaged/trained hair...
potato-potahto.

Cute outfit, love the pants, where do you shop (if u don't mind my asking or pm me)?!

I don't think "heat damage" and "heat trained" are synonymous terms. Otherwise we have to throw a "damage" next to all relaxed pics too...and that would be ridiculous.

Sent from my SPH-M920 using Long Hair Care Forum App

 

[Napp]

well my view on heat training is a litte different that i feel many are saying. i wrote it out to explain it the best way i could.here is a link to what i posted in the heat support thread.

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/12705737-post31.html

i think its more like a spectrum rather than such black and white descriptions people are trying to put on it. please tell me what you think.

 

[colibri972]

I ask you to forgive me Mandy to do this in your thread....

I admit, I did see that thread and didn't read it entirely, but I thought there is a difference between finding a new name for heating training and asking the difference between Heat training and Heat damage as well as asking how does one know if their hair is heat trained!

You are right there is a difference but those subjects are like light and darkness one can't exist without the other.

And IMHO, many of the current poster children/gurus of "heat training" definitely have heat damaged hair. Whether the permanent straightening was intentional or not.

Of course we have heat damaged hair, our results are more drastic and we don't want the intregrality of our shrinkage to come back. That's why I think the term "heat training" is not really accurate since the way we do it is more agressive.
(still nice)

they are the same to me.
if I go natural again i intend to heat train/damage my hair.*shrugs*
when i was natural i did everything right. wore protective styles, dc'ed regularly, never used heat, never colored, satin pillow case etc. etc. etc. and my hair was a dry, brittle, broken mess with splits like you couldn't imagine. but because i was natural and the bonds of my hair weren't broken it was more healthy than relaxed or heat trained hair that has sheen, moisture, no splits and no breakage?

I have the same natural hair problem. Sometimes I would feel that my hair just grow unhealthy from my scalp. My hair was 100% natural and all my conditioner bottles said: for dry and damaged hair. lol
Natural hair doesn't mean naturally and automatically healthy hair. Kinky, curly hair have naturally less cuticle layers and they are naturally more porous.
Can we say they are naturally (genetically) damaged? Those damages they are intentional?
(well... we can say still nice)

I agree with this. To me, heat training is an old school concept that has gotten a negative reputation due to the current trend to "embrace one's curls." Any and every thing that alters a person's curl pattern has a negative perception on the hair boards. When I think of heat training, I think of un-relaxed hair that either 1) has a loosened curl pattern or 2) straightens more easily than it used to because of the frequent use of heat. When I think of heat damaged hair, I think of breakage, splits, and reduced retention.

It's so true.
(Warning here start the ugly part.)
That's why I think that the real problem (in hair board) behind "heat training" is just "heat training vs natural hair".
Let's face it, IMHO 80% of the heat trained ladies are former natural, that's not really good for the natural hair "cosa nostra".

Actually, I was referring to the thread linked in this thread that was titled, "Let's Give Heat Training a New Name" or something like that. I wasn't referring to the comments in this thread, more like a general opinion on what I have seen across the board, not in this one instance. This thread, although there were different opinions, was pretty straightforward.

First, it was "let's find a new name for heat training" and not something like that please.
Second, it was not to try to find a new "sugar coated" , "nice" name. I said it enough really.
But since for some natural ladies "heat training" is already a sugar coated name... I'm wrong from the start.
I really love the "hey we don't care how you call it but you better call it by his name" way to think!

This. Also, I think we all know what would happen if natural haired women started talking about relaxed hair and chemical damage.

One thing that amaze me: relaxed ladies don't talk about natural hair and their natural problem.
They don't care it's not a foundation of their community.

So to know what happen when natural ladies talk about heat training, you take what happen when they talk about relaxer and you multiply it by two. lool
Heat damage vs Heat training - CurlTalk
I really invite to read ALL the thread and don't worry "drainoed" ladies you are mentioned too.

One thing that comfort me you when I read this thread: even between themselves natural ladies don't agree about heat training.

For the lady asking where I read about "heat trainers try to fool people around" it's here. Not with those words (unfortunately, I can't find this page) but the meaning of the sentences said is still the same.

Thank you. Thank you very much! I may start a spin-off thread b/c this is off-topic... but seriously, I don't understand why some (some! Not all) ppl w/heat trained hair turned their noses up at those with relaxed/texlaxed hair & still call themselves natural.

Because they usually are former natural and they have been so well brain washed that they still want to be in the natural hair heaven/ haven where you bathe in the light of verity, where you are free with no self issue.

 

[colibri972]

This thread is about to go to the left so I will say my piece and back away.

Being natural isn't some sort of exclusive members club that membership gets revoked if you decide to color your hair, use heat regularly, bkt, etc, etc. To the majority of the population it just means that you haven't chemically relaxed your hair.

Yod you're so right... No offense but being natural is an exclusive club, it wasn't not suppose to be but now it is.
You know it's like those clubs where there is some cool activities, they are not really better than the one fo the other clubs but since they are very elitist (on subjective and objective criteria) everyone wants to enter.
Natural is a community with her rules, her gurus, her renegates lol, her taboo.
I understood it when I felt guilty to not stay natural. I even thought : "if I'm not natural how to say to my daughter (if I have one) that her natural hair are beautiful?" (because as a natural you care about the message you give to your children or the others)
My natural friend (she is natural since she is born) who told give me:
You can show her and I know you will do, you can talk about the afro hair history and I know you will do, but at the end of the day it's her decision and after all there is no wrong way just different experience.
I truly believe that every liltle boys and girls should learn the black hair history it was the best part in my natural hair journey.

So in the grand scheme of things, who gives a care? I think that people come into these threads and "bash" (it's really not bashing it's telling the truth) heat training because they don't want a newbie to start doing it and then mess up their hair, or they will think there are no potential ill effects because people try to come up with pretty little terms for it. It's deceiving and it's dumb. Just call it what it is, and KEEP ON DOING IT. It's your hair, not anyone else's. Sheesh.

You, me and the others who don't care.
Since it's her hair, the newbie will do whatever she wants despite how much we care for them.

I and all the ladies who answered to my thread will try to not feel concerned and offended by "people try to come up with pretty little terms for it. It's deceiving and it's dumb"

Thank you! As many threads we see of women posting about how they flat-ironed their hair one time and ended up with straight pieces, I would think it'd be beneficial to post all of the warnings of things that COULD happen. IMO, heat training is not some process that you just pick up a flat-iron and go at it. Like, you really have to be careful or else things could easily go awry.

Let's say a natural is trying to heat train, so she straightens every other week, but uses lots of protein and moisture treatments to counteract any breakage that could occur. Let's say that her hair reverts back perfectly every time. Well, since she's not achieving her heat training goal, then she's gonna have to change her regimen: either straighten more often, or crank up the heat. Let's say she cranks up the heat, and next thing you know she has straight ends and puffy roots. That's how easily these things can happen, and a newbie needs to know that nothing is guaranteed. It takes a lot of trial and error.

No one is denying the fact that stretched hair has less problems, but let's not pretend as if this is something easily obtainable without any type of complications. We know how quickly newbies jump on bandwagons (we've all been there), so it's best to be upfront about the pros and cons of "heat training" and like you said, not giving it fancy little names to make it sound like it came straight from heaven.

I was a newbie, I was a plain no lye relaxed hair newbie with usual no lye relaxed hair problem.

Despite my evident hair progress thanks to to LHCF, I chose the natural way.
I had never seen a lady with WL natural hair, I knew my hair could be dry, I knew they could easily become entangled, I knew shrinkage was no joke. I became aware of protein and oil sensitivity, porosity issue and ssk later.

But despite all those problem I was happy to be nappy. I was conquered by the beauty of natural hair... and by the some natural ladies speech: natural is to be free (not so true, they can be time consuming), you will know who you are (true but now I know myself I want try something different), natural hair are healthy hair (well...), you will psend less money (if oil, butter, aloe vera work for you good if not welcome to the PJ world...)
This must be the same kind of angels who sing the praises of natural and heat training

Sorry if I have not been send to jail I will be more hypocrite.

 

[brittanynic16]

I ask you to forgive me Mandy to do this in your thread....



You are right there is a difference but those subjects are like light and darkness one can't exist without the other.




Of course we have heat damaged hair, our results are more drastic and we don't want the intregrality of our shrinkage to come back. That's why I think the term "heat training" is not really accurate since the way we do it is more agressive.
(still nice)



I have the same natural hair problem. Sometimes I would feel that my hair just grow unhealthy from my scalp. My hair was 100% natural and all my conditioner bottles said: for dry and damaged hair. lol
Natural hair doesn't mean naturally and automatically healthy hair. Kinky, curly hair have naturally less cuticle layers and they are naturally more porous.
Can we say they are naturally (genetically) damaged? Those damages they are intentional?
(well... we can say still nice)



It's so true.
(Warning here start the ugly part.)
That's why I think that the real problem (in hair board) behind "heat training" is just "heat training vs natural hair".
Let's face it, IMHO 80% of the heat trained ladies are former natural, that's not really good for the natural hair "cosa nostra".





First, it was "let's find a new name for heat training" and not something like that please.
Second, it was not to try to find a new "sugar coated" , "nice" name. I said it enough really.
But since for some natural ladies "heat training" is already a sugar coated name... I'm wrong from the start.
I really love the "hey we don't care how you call it but you better call it by his name" way to think!



One thing that amaze me: relaxed ladies don't talk about natural hair and their natural problem.
They don't care it's not a foundation of their community.

So to know what happen when natural ladies talk about heat training, you take what happen when they talk about relaxer and you multiply it by two. lool
Heat damage vs Heat training - CurlTalk
I really invite to read ALL the thread and don't worry "drainoed" ladies you are mentioned too.

One thing that comfort me you when I read this thread: even between themselves natural ladies don't agree about heat training.

For the lady asking where I read about "heat trainers try to fool people around" it's here. Not with those words (unfortunately, I can't find this page) but the meaning of the sentences said is still the same.



Because they usually are former natural and they have been so well brain washed that they still want to be in the natural hair heaven/ haven where you bathe in the light of verity, where you are free with no self issue.

 

[tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT]

ok...............

 

[Mandy4610]

Keep it clean ladies

 

[EllePixie]

I love the defensiveness and need for approval. Good show!

 

[Liege4421]

I love how every thread on this forum turns into a "relaxed vs natural" or "are you REALLY natural" debate...there was a thread recently noticing that there were fewer people posting on LHCF...I can't speak for others, but it's been longer than a minute since I've been on this forum, and these arguments are precisely the reason why. It's not beneficial for anyone when we start mud-slinging about what type of process causes one's hair to be damaged or not-damaged. I actually was interested in the thread until the ridiculous analogy between heat and relaxers was brought in...how can one compare a chemical to heat??? I used to get a press and curl (never should have stopped, but that's another issue entirely). Even when my hair was "heat trained," when I stopped pressing as frequently, the "trained" hair became kinkier and kinkier with every wash. I'm not talking about hair that fell off or was trimmed off...the hair had been looser and then when I stopped pressing, the same hair became kinky. At any rate, I think it's a misnomer to say "damage" is caused by a press and curl when the person doesn't have split ends and the hair is healthy, even IF the curl pattern was changed permanently. Bottom line is, the hair looks great, the person who's hair it is feels great, and who are any of us to start throwing stones because they're not part of the "natural hair club?" Good grief...get a life.

...returns to LCHF hibernation for another 6 weeks like a groundhog...

 

[Br*nzeb*mbsh~ll]

I guffawed at this...

Not everyone can walk around with shrunken wet twists fros and puffs all day just so they can say "I have healthy hair free of relaxers and heat!"

: cough cough

 

[bludaydreamr]

Heat training IMO is a gradual, yet consistent process of intentionally losing the curl pattern in your hair. Heat damage is hair damaged by using excessive amounts of heat. Heat training can become heat damage, but as others have mentioned it is all about learning what your hair can withstand; the same way texlaxing is a process and involves a technique not just a matter of slapping relaxer on you hair and rinsing it off.

I have been here a while and I'm over the whole "you're not natural if you do XYZ to your hair" debate.
When texlaxing became popular people actually put percentages of how much they relaxed their hair their siggy's.
When BKT was the rave some really had issues because it was a chemical but it wasn't suppose to permanently alter texture.
Now the Great Heat Training Debate is in full swing; hopefully we can keep in mind newbies and some older heads might actually want to learn a new process and try something new/different with their hair.

For the past year d*mn near every thread has equated heat training to damaged hair. I was even confused about this until I actually experienced damage from heat which happened in just 1 visit to a salon. In the 4 years on my journey one of the healthiest & best looking heads of hair I've ever seen was of WL, heat trained, 4a natural hair.

I understand why some are reluctant to except Heat training as a process, but it wasn't to long ago that some of us would not have believed that WL type 4 hair even existed. Anyone considering any process to their hair should first do the research, but just writing off heat training and heat damage as one in the same is very narrow minded thinking IMO. I paid for a membership here not at that natural site, so that I can be exposed to different techniques.

 

[SVT]

closed.
.............