Ya'll The Asians in the Supreme Court Tryna Get Rid of Affirmative Action.

[fluffyforever]

I see both arguments but I’m not sure I am in favor of keeping affirmative action. I do not think it is really needed. I will say I also don’t know how it works exactly or if every school does admissions the same way.

In my point of view, college bound kids have gotten the qualifications to be admitted to college. They have the grades. If they don’t, affirmative action isn’t going to help them soar in college, where students are the most independent and have the least amount of consistent peer support. College bound kids have met the basic requirements to be accepted- did research and have taken all the prerequisite classes to meet the minimum requirements to be accepted into a school. Affirmative action doesn’t compensate for a student who never took a math class.

With that in mind, why is affirmative action really needed? How much is it actually helping- how many extra points is it giving to students’ applications? Is there an actual study on this- the percent of students that have only gotten accepted because of affirmative action points? How did they do in college?

plus, if affirmative action is basically helping everyone except white males, and certain Asian who are quota’d out, is it really all that important to keep? If everyone is special no one is.

I say let the schools be taken over by Asians and watch what schools do to maintain their culture. Grades are not the only thing schools consider.

There are so many ways to ensure a diverse body besides looking at race and sex. Essays should be more important now than ever before . Work experience. Admission interviews. Zip codes. Random drawings. School districts. States. Countries. So many ways to choose and limit students without using a federally protected class as a barometer. Schools can really choose whoever they want. Make it first come first served. The first to qualify are the first to get in.

Everyone can’t be accepted. People are always going to get cut from the list. Students need to understand that’s life.

 

[Evolving78]

Well I would like to see how this plays out for new enrollment this year and next.

 

[Black Ambrosia]

I see both arguments but I’m not sure I am in favor of keeping affirmative action. I do not think it is really needed. I will say I also don’t know how it works exactly or if every school does admissions the same way.

In my point of view, college bound kids have gotten the qualifications to be admitted to college. They have the grades. If they don’t, affirmative action isn’t going to help them soar in college, where students are the most independent and have the least amount of consistent peer support. College bound kids have met the basic requirements to be accepted- did research and have taken all the prerequisite classes to meet the minimum requirements to be accepted into a school. Affirmative action doesn’t compensate for a student who never took a math class.

With that in mind, why is affirmative action really needed? How much is it actually helping- how many extra points is it giving to students applications? Is there an actually study on this- the percent of students that have only gotten accepted because of affirmative action points? How did they do in college?

plus, if affirmative action is basically helping everyone except white males, and certain Asian who are quota’d out, is it really all that important to keep? If everyone is special no one is.

I say let the schools be taken over by Asians and watch what schools do to maintain their culture. Grades are not the only thing schools consider.

There are so many ways to ensure a diverse body and besides looking at race and sex. Essays should be more important now than ever before . Work experience. Admission interviews. Zip codes. Random drawings. School districts. States. Countries. So many ways to choose and limit students without using a federally protected class as a barometer. Schools can really choose whoever they want. Make it first come first served. The first to qualify are the first to get in.

Everyone can’t be accepted. People are always going to get cut from the list. Students need to understand that’s life.

I'm surprised by this post. This is the posturing a lot of white people take. Affirmative action isn't putting unqualified black students in spaces they don't belong. It's allowing qualified black and hispanic students to get spots that they weren't being considered for. Requirements for top schools go beyond grades and college admission tests. If you can't demonstrate that you've been a leader, played sports, mastered a musical instrument, been published, and basically saved a life then it's hard to stand out. Just having the grades and test scores means that your average black student won't have a chance. And by 'having the grades and test scores' I mean falling within the range the school posts. Your asian students are testing higher and it's bolstering their entitlement. Going after affirmative action is just them being aware of the social climate in the country and snatching low hanging fruit. They'll eventually go after legacy students. They'll be less successful with that because alums give money to these schools and the schools aren't about to bite the hands that feed them but they may get legislation on their side.

 

[nysister]

Well if they base it in personality and being able to get along with others in spaces outside of the norm, there would only be a handful of Asians, so we can do it that way instead.

 

[fluffyforever]

I'm surprised by this post. This is the posturing a lot of white people take. Affirmative action isn't putting unqualified black students in spaces they don't belong. It's allowing qualified black and hispanic students to get spots that they weren't being considered for. Requirements for top schools go beyond grades and college admission tests. If you can't demonstrate that you've been a leader, played sports, mastered a musical instrument, been published, and basically saved a life then it's hard to stand out. Just having the grades and test scores means that your average black student won't have a chance. And by 'having the grades and test scores' I mean falling within the range the school posts. Your asian students are testing higher and it's bolstering their entitlement. Going after affirmative action is just them being aware of the social climate in the country and snatching low hanging fruit. They'll eventually go after legacy students. They'll be less successful with that because alums give money to these schools and the schools aren't about to bite the hands that feed them but they may get legislation on their side.

But that’s what I’m saying. The students are already qualified- so why is affirmative action needed? If Asian students are testing higher, good for them. That’s hard work that should be rewarded. But like we all know, grades aren’t the only thing. Are you saying most college qualified black and brown students are average and therefore were not able to play sports, work jobs, be a leader, or have any life experiences they could demonstrate before they apply to college?

How can we say black students aren’t being considered? Is that still really the case - In today’s climate? I truly want to know how many students are getting into college solely because of affirmative action each year. But from what I read, it seems the way affirmative is implemented, no one will ever know because that isn’t tracked.

I’m saying that it’s not fair to stand out because of race. For public institutions to favor one person over another because of race is discriminatory and I find discrimination for traits we are born with, that have nothing to do with the capability to be a student, to be disgusting and unfair, period. It’s not a white person’s posturing- isn’t this what we as black people have been saying all along? To me it seems like people are implying we are supposed to be ok with being hypocritical when it’s in our favor.

Schools should discriminate and cut class rosters for reasons that aren’t a protected class, that is what I believe. What’s wrong with changing how schools choose their body instead of relying on affirmative action? Why can’t admissions be revamped altogether? Just because something is currently in place from good intentions doesn’t mean it’s the best or the only way to address representation and diversity concerns.

I’m also against legacy admissions. If you’re attending a public institution you shouldn’t get a better chance at enrollment because your parent attended. You shouldn’t get a better chance at enrollment because your parent donated a bunch of money either.

 

[Black Ambrosia]

But that’s what I’m saying. The students are already qualified- so why is affirmative action needed? If Asian students are testing higher, good for them. That’s hard work that should be rewarded. But like we all know, grades aren’t the only thing. Are you saying most college qualified black and brown students are average and therefore were not able to play sports, work jobs, be a leader, or have any life experiences they could demonstrate before they apply to college?

How can we say black students aren’t being considered? Is that still really the case - In today’s climate? I truly want to know how many students are getting into college solely because of affirmative action each year. But from what I read, it seems the way affirmative is implemented, no one will ever know because that isn’t tracked.

I’m saying that it’s not fair to stand out because of race. For public institutions to favor one person over another because of race is discriminatory and I find discrimination for traits we are born with, that have nothing to do with the capability to be a student, to be disgusting and unfair, period. It’s not a white person’s posturing- isn’t this what we as black people have been saying all along? To me it seems like people are implying we are supposed to be ok with being hypocritical when it’s in our favor.

Schools should discriminate and cut class rosters for reasons that aren’t a protected class, that is what I believe. What’s wrong with changing how schools choose their body instead of relying on affirmative action? Why can’t admissions be revamped altogether? Just because something is currently in place from good intentions doesn’t mean it’s the best or the only way to address representation and diversity concerns.

I’m also against legacy admissions. If you’re attending a public institution you shouldn’t get a better chance at enrollment because your parent attended. You shouldn’t get a better chance at enrollment because your parent donated a bunch of money either.

I think you missed my point. In jest I said that you basically have to save a life to stand out. What I was getting at is that there is a long laundry list of other activities that the best candidates seemingly have to have done in order to be accepted into top tier schools. And black students are largely unable to compete on that playing field. Most can hold a leadership position, play a sport or an instrument, and maybe do one other thing but doing significantly more is a burden for their parents. So you take Tyrell who's a student athlete and an officer in a youth group and compare him to an asian or white student with a resume that would make an adult envious then I would say affirmative action is needed because Tyrell will always come up short despite having the grades and being well rounded.

I get where you're coming from about revamping the system but it's reminiscent of concerns about the two party voting system, healthcare, and everything else that's systematically wrong with the country. Yes it's needed. Nope, it ain't happening. And since it's not happening, it's imperative to hold onto the few things that actually benefit us like affirmative action.

 

[Everything Zen]

^^^ In other words- we always have to be super human to stand out to get our opportunities. Black women know this - we’re literally dying as a result. That’s not acceptable.

 

[Evolving78]

I looked at schools that have banned AA and their stats/rates for African American and/or black enrollment are low and decreased since those schools made the change.

 

[awhyley]

I looked at schools that have banned AA and their stats/rates for African American and/or black enrollment are low and decreased since those schools made the change.

Does this make HBCU's a more favorable option then?

 

[Miss_Luna]

^^^ In other words- we always have to be super human to stand out to get our opportunities. Black women know this and as a result - we’re literally dying as a result. That’s not acceptable.

100% agree. I am honestly surprised and disheartened to hear Black women say some of the things I've read on the internet.

I was accepted into a newly-developed program, post-grad, after excelling professionally and academically. Prior to my admission, the majority of "minority" candidates were Asian. I had the same, most of the time higher, professional and academic accolades. Someone on the admission committee, was brave enough and called out the bias in the admissions process. I was being singled out because I didn't "look" like the typical candidate, so how could I possibly be in such an elite program? And that's called Racism.

I'm disappointed and honestly disgusted with that country.

 

[fluffyforever]

I looked at schools that have banned AA and their stats/rates for African American and/or black enrollment are low and decreased since those schools made the change.

This is not entirely true. Some black enrollment actually increased after an initial dip because schools are using alternative measures besides race on their own because they do actually value a diverse campus. Like initially enrollment dipped for black students after California banned affirmative action in 1996, but then the numbers returned to similar levels in 2006 for UC Berkeley and UC LA. And the University of Texas now has a slightly higher enrollment of black and brown students than they even did before when they had affirmative action 10 years ago based in alternative measures they implemtnedOther schools have and are implementing alternative measures too.

But let’s not also say that no affirmative action in some states is the only reason why black enrollment is decreasing. Black enrollment has been also been decreasing in states with affirmative action. Like Illinois had headlines talking about a 34% decrease over the past 10 year, before Covid. My state has declines too and we still have affirmative action. Many states with affirmative action has had alarming declines in black student enrollment over the past 10 years.

To me it seems like schools should be implementing alternative measures for admissions rather than relying on discrimination. The real issue is increasing the amount of black students that apply to these schools and the alternative measures like outreach should be the focus.

 

[Evolving78]

This is not entirely true. Some black enrollment actually increased after an initial dip because schools are using alternative measures besides race on their own because they do actually value a diverse campus. Like initially enrollment dipped for black students after California banned affirmative action in 1996, but then the numbers returned to similar levels in 2006 for UC Berkeley and UC LA. And the University of Texas now has a slightly higher enrollment of black and brown students than they even did before when they had affirmative action 10 years ago based in alternative measures they implemtnedOther schools have and are implementing alternative measures too.

But let’s not also say that no affirmative action in some states is the only reason why black enrollment is decreasing. Black enrollment has been also been decreasing in states with affirmative action. Like Illinois had headlines talking about a 34% decrease over the past 10 year, before Covid. My state has declines too and we still have affirmative action. Many states with affirmative action has had alarming declines in black student enrollment over the past 10 years.

To me it seems like schools should be implementing alternative measures for admissions rather than relying on discrimination. The real issue is increasing the amount of black students that apply to these schools and the alternative measures like outreach should be the focus.

Yes it is true. There has been a decrease, especially at the school you have mentioned. Enrollment has decreased. Black students have enrolled in partner-schools and the graduation rate has decreased as well. Enrollment is down at University of Mich. currently 4.2%. Black student population is 5% total. Enrollment since the banned was implemented has decreased, not including the pandemic. As far as IL, I agree. Even though IL ranks 11% in education nationwide, there are still issues with the educational system. It has more to do with administration and the way they handle money that schools receive. Predominantly black school districts have admins that abuse the schools financially and don’t utilize resources efficiently or effectively. You have a lot of apathy from parents and students.

 

[Evolving78]

Does this make HBCU's a more favorable option then?

I don’t know at this point. HBCUs struggle financially and I’m not for going to an institution just because there are more black people there. What is the enrollment rate vs graduation rate? I don’t believe in going to school out of state if you have good schools within your state. Going to school to get into more debt and get on public assistance to try to stay there is not the goal. There are more affordable options. I know there are ladies here that have graduated from HBCUs, but are they just simply overachievers anyway? Do they donate and participate in alumni fundraising activities and do they take what the “HBCU experience”has given them and give back to prospective students, or do they come out with an individualistic mindset?

 

[fluffyforever]

Yes it is true. There has been a decrease, especially at the school you have mentioned. Enrollment has decreased. Black students have enrolled in partner-schools and the graduation rate has decreased as well. Enrollment is down at University of Mich. currently 4.2%. Black student population is 5% total. Enrollment since the banned was implemented has decreased, not including the pandemic. As far as IL, I agree. Even though IL ranks 11% in education nationwide, there are still issues with the educational system. It has more to do with administration and the way they handle money that schools receive. Predominantly black school districts have admins that abuse the schools financially and don’t utilize resources efficiently or effectively. You have a lot of apathy from parents and students.

Enrollment is decreasing across the board, affirmative action or not, and has been decreasing. Black populations at universities have always been low and never reflected the US population percentage. Not enough Black students apply to college and that is the problem. At the University of Michigan, the black population has always been under 5%, even when they had affirmative action. It’s not like the population was ever 12% and then affirmative action was banned and then the population dropped to 5%.

Yes enrollment immediately decreased with the ban of affirmative action. I’m not denying that. I said it’s not entirely true that there are just significant decreases because of a ban and all hope is lost. I’m pointing out it’s not the only reason for the decrease since affirmative action schools are also seeing decreases. And I’m pointing out that schools saw this decrease after the ban and started voluntarily trying out new ways to target our population to increase applicants and enrollments, which is working in a lot of cases. However nothing will overcome the decrease in applicants unless those underlying reasons are addressed.

Graduation rates decreasing is also another problem that is separate from the issue with affirmative action for admissions. There are so many variables that it is difficult to determine why. Life responsibilities, lack of accountability, lack of resources to exceed, bad time/management, lack of focus, extensions of graduation dates, changing of majors, etc.

 

[madamdot]

This is a great and simple example why Affirmative Action is needed

Jackson’s riddle: One applicant writes in his essay that it is important to him that he be admitted because his family has lived in North Carolina since before the Civil War and he would be the fifth generation of his family to proudly attend UNC. Another applicant writes that his family, too, has lived in North Carolina since before the Civil War, and it is important to him that he attend UNC because he is the descendant of enslaved people and his ancestors were barred from attending the university. Was Strawbridge arguing that the university could give preference to the first candidate but not to the second?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/10/31/ketanji-brown-jackson-legacies-affirmative-action/

This is why it is so hard to explain privilege because the white student and the black student can have the exact same grade and activities - and if admissions are trying to decide on which one to admit, without AA they will go with the person who already have a relationship with the school.

The white student has a relationship that has nothing to do with his/her personal accomplishments. And the black student does not for the same reason. And yet the black person will not be chosen without the conscious decision to acknowledge and understand that laws enacted years ago will still have impact on the marginalized.

People assume affirmative action means letting in people who are not qualified. It’s not what it means at all.

It is not a perfect system and if we are not going to address the institutionalized problem then we need patchwork.

Ive been saying for years that there is a lot we take for granted that we think are now entrenched in our culture that can still be taken away.

 

[Seattle Slew]

But that’s what I’m saying. The students are already qualified- so why is affirmative action needed? If Asian students are testing higher, good for them. That’s hard work that should be rewarded. But like we all know, grades aren’t the only thing. Are you saying most college qualified black and brown students are average and therefore were not able to play sports, work jobs, be a leader, or have any life experiences they could demonstrate before they apply to college?

How can we say black students aren’t being considered? Is that still really the case - In today’s climate? I truly want to know how many students are getting into college solely because of affirmative action each year. But from what I read, it seems the way affirmative is implemented, no one will ever know because that isn’t tracked.

I’m saying that it’s not fair to stand out because of race. For public institutions to favor one person over another because of race is discriminatory and I find discrimination for traits we are born with, that have nothing to do with the capability to be a student, to be disgusting and unfair, period. It’s not a white person’s posturing- isn’t this what we as black people have been saying all along? To me it seems like people are implying we are supposed to be ok with being hypocritical when it’s in our favor.

Schools should discriminate and cut class rosters for reasons that aren’t a protected class, that is what I believe. What’s wrong with changing how schools choose their body instead of relying on affirmative action? Why can’t admissions be revamped altogether? Just because something is currently in place from good intentions doesn’t mean it’s the best or the only way to address representation and diversity concerns.

I’m also against legacy admissions. If you’re attending a public institution you shouldn’t get a better chance at enrollment because your parent attended. You shouldn’t get a better chance at enrollment because your parent donated a bunch of money either.

I’m hoping someone already said this elsewhere but - true affirmative action as I understand it, are SANCTIONS against organizations found to have discriminatory hiring/enrollment practices in the past. So qualified black students were applying and still not being considered. So then the government/law system (not crystal clear on this part) orders them to rectify the situation. That’s where the “quotas” come from.

I think oftentimes folks get it confused with an organizations voluntary “diversity hiring” policy or practices. That is not affirmative action. So, again as I u understand it, companies or schools will be free to continue on w discriminatory enrollment practices. I may this oversimplified though.

 

[Black Ambrosia]

 

[Evolving78]

I said this to a family member that this would be coming next on the chopping block.

 

[Everything Zen]

^^^^ and suddenly a college education will be critical to success again…

 

[LivingInPeace]

^^^^ and suddenly a college education will be critical to success again…

Exactly. There's a rule book and when we play by the rules, they change the rules.

 

[awhyley]

I said this to a family member that this would be coming next on the chopping block.

Yes, the other shoe has dropped. There is talk over here now about whether international student funding will be cut (esp. if you're a minority student).

 

[yamilee21]

Exactly. There's a rule book and when we play by the rules, they change the rules.

Quoting for emphasis because this is so true… has been true seemingly always… no matter what we do.

 

[lavaflow99]

Legacy admissions are next to go.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

I see both arguments but I’m not sure I am in favor of keeping affirmative action. I do not think it is really needed. I will say I also don’t know how it works exactly or if every school does admissions the same way.

Yeesh.
Then why make such statements. College acceptance is not solely based on grades. Many top grade students are not well rounded and they are not favorable. Many schools, especially the big ones and the Ivy leagues already attract high achieving kids. But who wants a bunch of kids who are books only? And yeah, if you are doing sports and arts and other activities, you may finish with a 3.5-3.7 vs a kid who got 4.0 their whole education but did little else of interest. They are going to get that kid with a 3.7 over a kid with a 4.0 and the kid with the 4.0 will never know unless it was a classmate or friend that they knew. Or, like what happened to me, I had a roommate assume I got accepted to my school bc I was black, I had to slap her with the evidence of me graduating at the top 10% of my class and finishing the year with an unweighted 3.9 GPA. So a lot of these kids made assumptions. Many even took it to court--only to lose because they didn't prove they were not accepted bc someone less qualified got in over them. ALSO: colleges do not disclose how they accept. They only inform as to what they are looking for....MUCH...I mean MUCH of those who are against AA are making GROSS, unproven assumptions and truly don't know HOW AA works or how college applications work.

Again: Colleges do NOT disclose HOW they choose. But I've spoken to a lot of people who are part of enrollment and they tell you, AA or not, they are sometimes setting the highest GPAs aside for a more well-rounded kid with a slightly lower GPA but we are not talking the 3.0 kid vs the 4.0. If youre well rounded with a 3.7 or 3.8, you're still an A student and have proven you can do many things while still be a high earning student. Facts are: Asians are not always athletic, or on the debate team, or participating in arts, or other more right-brained activities. So of course they think they stand to win with the overturn of AA.

Does this make HBCU's a more favorable option then?

Yes and No.
Yes because the facts are, black people feel happier and safer environment wise with black professors, black staff, black students and peers. The research supports this.

No because depending on the school, HBCUs still have some infrastructure struggles. I live in the city where FAMU and FSU is located. Both campuses are beautiful, and less than a mile from each other. But the facts are, the state stole money from HBCUs (state run) like FAMU. As it stands, FAMU is on year 2 or 3 of a long waiting list for on-campus housing for incoming freshmen and then returning sophs and juniors. They are struggling to build more on-campus housing. But so is FSU because the economy has students choosing to not live off campus anymore. But FSU isn't struggling. FAMU has added more classes, hired more professors, expanded but kids don't want to live off campus. And we are having a wave of off-campus crime right now in the city. The truth is, more kids ARE INDEED enrolling at HBCUs now. Which is good but the schools aren't equipped for the onslaught. So it highlights the urgency of needing to push investment into HBCUs. Concerning the earlier accusation about funding theft, Forbes wrote an article last year about billions stolen from specific state funded HBCUs and FAMU was on the list. They are supposed to pay the same amount of money per student at each state school (which was public record) but was not (also public record). Which is why, all of a sudden, DeSatan feels HBCUs aren't necessary. Cause several state funded HBCUs have won the lawsuit against their state but have yet to receive all or ANY of the back pay owed. But private HBCUs are struggling too--look at Bethune Cookman. Howard is private but had more funding. Now, supporting the elimination of AA is being used to prop up the argument to eliminate HBCUs altogether. The first thing they will come for are Land Grant Universities (Univ of Florida is one...and Florida A&M is one). That means all of the HBCUs with A&M in their name are first. Trust me, DeSatan KNOWS these HBCUs are experiencing increased enrollment. He will be very eager to take FAMUs charter as soon as he is able. You see he is dismantling education here already.

 

[LivingInPeace]

In my fantasy USA, wealthy and other African Americans donate to create private K-12 schools across the country. The main focus would be on educating gifted Black students, but there would also be schools for average Black students and schools for those who are struggling with academics. Start a school to HBCU pipeline that would also work in conjunction with Black parents who homeschool.

 

[fluffyforever]

Yeesh.
Then why make such statements. College acceptance is not solely based on grades. Many top grade students are not well rounded and they are not favorable. Many schools, especially the big ones and the Ivy leagues already attract high achieving kids. But who wants a bunch of kids who are books only? And yeah, if you are doing sports and arts and other activities, you may finish with a 3.5-3.7 vs a kid who got 4.0 their whole education but did little else of interest. They are going to get that kid with a 3.7 over a kid with a 4.0 and the kid with the 4.0 will never know unless it was a classmate or friend that they knew. Or, like what happened to me, I had a roommate assume I got accepted to my school bc I was black, I had to slap her with the evidence of me graduating at the top 10% of my class and finishing the year with an unweighted 3.9 GPA. So a lot of these kids made assumptions. Many even took it to court--only to lose because they didn't prove they were not accepted bc someone less qualified got in over them. ALSO: colleges do not disclose how they accept. They only inform as to what they are looking for....MUCH...I mean MUCH of those who are against AA are making GROSS, unproven assumptions and truly don't know HOW AA works or how college applications work.

I never said college acceptances were solely based on grades. That’s obvious.

I’m saying I’m not in favor of affirmative action because kids who get accepted are already qualified and don’t need an additional boost based on race, which is illegally discriminatory.

Just like you, I and probably many women on this forum have been wrongly assumed to have gotten into college or gotten a high profile job because of our race, not considering that we are actually qualified. As long as affirmative action exist people won’t stop wrongly assuming that schools and employers fill positions with us to meet a made up black quota.

If people want to support affirmative action that’s fine because I get it but I don’t understand how at the same time they pretend like it’s not discriminatory. I’m all for advocating and helping our community but I think there are better ways than blatantly disadvantaging others. Some people are ok with disadvantaging others as long as it moves us forward, and we can just agree to disagree on the best way to do that.

I don’t understand why I’m questioned on why I’m sharing my thoughts that I don’t think affirmative action is needed? I have not made any false statements and I have shared my reasonings and provided examples on why I don’t think it’s needed when there are other ways to boost minority applicants. I thought this was a forum meant to share ideas freely without being shamed.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

I never said college acceptances were solely based on grades. That’s obvious.

I’m saying I’m not in favor of affirmative action because kids who get accepted are already qualified and don’t need an additional boost based on race, which is illegally discriminatory.

Just like you, I and probably many women on this forum have been wrongly assumed to have gotten into college or gotten a high profile job because of our race, not considering that we are actually qualified. As long as affirmative action exist people won’t stop wrongly assuming that schools and employers fill positions with us to meet a made up black quota.

If people want to support affirmative action that’s fine because I get it but I don’t understand how at the same time they pretend like it’s not discriminatory. I’m all for advocating and helping our community but I think there are better ways than blatantly disadvantaging others. Some people are ok with disadvantaging others as long as it moves us forward, and we can just agree to disagree on the best way to do that.

I don’t understand why I’m questioned on why I’m sharing my thoughts that I don’t think affirmative action is needed? I have not made any false statements and I have shared my reasonings and provided examples on why I don’t think it’s needed when there are other ways to boost minority applicants. I thought this was a forum meant to share ideas freely without being shamed.

You claimed to not know how it works--then decided its not necessary. I was calling that out more than anything. And I then went on a rant about AA in general. But I need you to understand, you are positing the same argument as racist whites who USE that argument to HIDE their racism. You are not wrong in your feelings. Clarence Thomas agrees with you and his argument about it being insulting to Black folk to suggest they NEED HELP holds weight for me. But stances like his and yours ignore the fact that enrollment of high-achieving black students all of a sudden went up after AA. Its not like blacks had JUST STARTED to become high-achieving. And as racist as this country remains to be, we simply don't want to peel back any gains made thanks to AA. And why SHOULD WE TRUST them to do what's right? So to be honest...maybe this is a TRUST issue. Do POC trust this white government? SHOULD THEY? And it sounds like you and Judge Thomas are saying WE SHOULD.

Oh and context warning: you're speaking to someone who DOES NOT CARE if its discriminatory to give blacks a boost.
With all of my HS achievements (A average GPA, Yearbook editor, student government, and many other achievements)---looking back, if being black allowed Affirmative Action to give me a boost--good. But I had to hit my roommate with the facts--pure facts about my achievements and my GPA. I am smarter now, and I had a bit of a chip on my shoulder because I started college when I was 17. I was young and trying to prove myself to the world.

You know....a Jewish man is suing a black woman-owned venture capitalist fund because they give their grants to BW. He is calling them discriminatory. Meanwhile the company he founded is allied with dozens of Jewish and Hebrew speaking orgs that cater to Jewish people, investors and families. They just SAY they are open to all. And no one has a problem with Jewish people looking out for Jewish people. They title their funds as so as a way to discourage non-Hebrews or Jews from applying. Meanwhile, someone sees something helping black folk, and its a problem. They wanna join our safe spaces...like all the WW applying to be in "Black girls run." So with all of these conditions, I'm always gonna have a little smoke for people like this guy who suggests people looking out for Black people are problematic. That fund was started BY black women FOR black women because they rightly acknowledge that BW get <1% of the investment capital out there. I'm really not trying to hear anyone talk about we need a fair and level playing field when we play their game and they STILL exclude us intentionally. I'm not trying to hear it anymore. Cause it was never a fair game. Asking black folk to play fair is just their way of saying: "too many black folk doing good now." And that's literally what's going on in so many areas of life.

However--- know that I hear your assertions, and we need civil discourse. Being the one many disagree with is uncomfortable, but it contributes to the entire conversation and it needs to be heart----- and know that even if your voice shakes, I need you to always speak up. With all love and respect.

 

[Shula]

 

[larry3344]

Last post lol good. My soul burned when Asian Americans tried to scapegoat African Americans for not getting to their preferred colleges.

 

[yamilee21]

The actual article is simply insane… parents paying as much as $10,000 for a personal consultant who tells their kids to take 15-20 A.P. classes, on top of their extracurriculars, sport and instrument? A consultant describing a student as “lucky” for being able to write an essay on her mother’s struggle with cancer, because that made her stand out, despite her “mediocre” 4.3 GPA and 1520 SAT score? That ridiculous mentality they brought from their countries, where one exam determines the rest of your life, is utter garbage. As awful as things can be in the U.S., the one thing almost everyone always has is a second (and third or more) chance at reinventing themselves through education, thanks to an abundance of post-secondary educational institutions. And the “elites” of society may share your classrooms, but only in very rare cases will they let you into their world. Isn’t the point of immigrating here to leave the negative aspects of your culture behind, so your children can have more opportunities? Yet these consultants along with their nonsensical mentality are closing off so many opportunities and options, in pursuit of a path that doesn’t guarantee anything at all.

Asian-Americans are just being scammed. It’s the same thing at the high school level in NYC; they are being convinced that they are doomed if they don’t attend one of the dozen or so most selective high schools, despite being able to stand out more at dozens of other high school programs that might be better fits. Meanwhile, it’s not like the Ivy Leagues have ever increased the total number of students they accept from any given school. In 1988, when Stuyvesant was 20-25% Asian, Harvard and Yale each accepted about a dozen graduates, and not all of them were Asian. In 2023, with Stuyvesant about 75% Asian, Harvard and Yale still only accepted about a dozen graduates each, and they still weren’t all Asians - as a group, they have substantially decreased their chances of getting into these schools.