No more hair type confusion

[katie]

i have areas of my hair where water droplets sit on my hair. From the LOIS system, that's considered wiry hair. And the thing with Andre's system, it seems like type 4 would be considered wiry but not everyone with type 4 hair has wiry hair. Also, I've seen people with type 1 or 2 hair who have water droplets on their hair when it's wet.

So a wiry type 4 then. Thanks!

 

[Porsche19]

I thought 1 was completely straight, regardless of a,b,or c?

No...

I think of it in this way... you have to have a point in which straight hair turns wavier. You don't just jump from stick straight hair to a head full of waves. There is an "in between" hair type.

1b would be Not bone straight, but mostly straight... with slight wavyness.

1c would be almost equally wavy and straight at the same time.... extremely loose waves.

Just like there is a 3c (kinky and curly at the same time) in between 3b (curly) and 4a (kinky)

 

[Poohbear]

I have another question. Anyone can answer this but do you think shrinkage is only a type 4 characteristic?

I think shrinkage can come with any hair type. That's just me.

For example, I'll share an experience when I was relaxed which I consider type 4 hair that's altered to be type 1. When my relaxed hair was wet, it would not be completely straight and not as long as it would be if it was dry.

I think a better way to look at it is curlier hair types shrink up more than straighter hair types.

 

[Tru_Mind]

[size=+1]I agree Tai...with everything that you've said! I don't see what's so hard about hair typing either. I think that some fail to realize that even though your hair is a 3b, 4a, or 4b, each and every 3b, 4a, and 4b is not going to look exactly alike. This hair typing system that Andre created focus mainly on curl pattern not texture. Therefore, each sub-category have different textures.

Really, one picture can never completely describe each sub-category...and that's when the confusion sets in. People notice that their hair does not look like that picture. I'm 3b according to Andre's definition which is "hair with a medium amount of curl, ranging from bouncy ringlets to tight corkscrews." He also said that, "curly hair consists of a combination of textures"...no curly head will have the same combo of textures. What Tai said about 3b is right too. My hair does not look like that 3b pic above...although that 3b pic is one type of 3b look. IMO, that pic is more 3a/b than just 3b. All 3b's don't look like that. Also, all 4a's don't look like 4a pic...etc.

When the 3c sub-category was added the "tight corkscrews" from Andre's 3b definintion was pulled away into it's own category. This lead to some confusion too. However, I still understand it...it just makes me a 3b/c...that's all.

So, according to Andre's definintion since 3c is not included into Andre's type 3 sub-category Amel and Rachel will be 3b...but since 3c has been added and it’s a sub-category they have been pulled into the 3c, because of their tight corkscrews. When I view those pics of Amel and Rachel I see 3b/c...not just 3c. Also, Amel changes the look/texture of her hair often...so does Rachel.

Peachtree, Flowerhair, Hairlove, Tai, and Kha, have 3b hair according to Andre’ definition…which is “medium amount of curl, ranging from bouncy ringlets to tight corkscrews.” All four of the ladies have different and similar combinations of hair textures. All have different textures and curl patterns in different sections. However, since 3c has been added they are 3b/c, because they have tight corkscrews or like Tai said “curls the size of curls that are the size of a coffee stirrer to a pencil.” IMO, Andre’s 3b definition is a complete definition and completely describes all four of the ladies hair, because he does includes their tight corkscrews/3c hair.

Yes, some people that have mostly 2a, 2b, 2c, 3b, 3c, 4a, or 4b can have any one/or more of these hair types on one head due to genetics. A family friend has mostly type 2 hair, and in the upper right section she has a large patch of type 4a. It's very obvious, because the the 2 textures are so different, and the 4a section is much thicker than the rest.

This is where it gets confusing to some. Yes, type 4a’s definition is very similar to 3b...or 3c...or 3b/c. However, IMO, 3c hair has come to be 4a hair and 4a has come to be 3c. Tai defined type 4a very well, and in more detail than Andre. Tai stated, “If you have defined curls that are very small and tend to lose that definition when they dry and have a lot of shrinkage in it's natural state, it's a 4a. If there's no curl definition or it's very minimal and there's also high shrinkage, it's a 4b. If your hair looks curlier wet than dry and shrinks up more once dry, you're a type 4.” Andre’s definition is, “tightly coiled hair that, when stretch has an “S” pattern, much like curly hair…the same as Tai’s definition, but Tai's definition is detailed.

Hey, if you need me to help you type your hair I can help…but if you’re are relaxed you have to have good amount of new growth.

I plan on eventually doing a thread like Ms Kenesha did since Hairlove's ablum is closed. I plan on using more the one head of hair for each sub-catergory. I will included type 3c. IMO, Ayeshia, and DreamyPisces are excellent definitions of 3c hair. Their hair can look like 3b and 4a at times, therefore their hair type is smack in between...which is 3c.[/size]

 

[qtgirl]

You can think of it any way you want, but type 1 is straight whether a, b, or c. You are inventing your own hairtyping range, not what Andre has stated in his book and not what NC.com has or the LOIS system. If this is what the 1 range is to you, that's fine, I'd just put that caveat in any communique I would write that states hairtype, since these other guides are the main internet hair forum standards for the definition of hairtypes.

No...

I think of it in this way... you have to have a point in which straight hair turns wavier. You don't just jump from stick straight hair to a head full of waves. There is an "in between" hair type.

1b would be Not bone straight, but mostly straight... with slight wavyness.

1c would be almost equally wavy and straight at the same time.... extremely loose waves.

Just like there is a 3c (kinky and curly at the same time) in between 3b (curly) and 4a (kinky)

 

[qtgirl]

You had shrinkage because your roots were not a 1 (neither is your relaxed hair either; relaxed hair is hair where the curl or kink is relaxed and not really completely straightened, usu another method is used/needed to make the hair completely straight and even when your hair is straight it's not a 1). Anyone who is relaxed can have shrinkage, and any hairtype that is not completely straight will have some shrinkage versus their straightened hair.

I think shrinkage can come with any hair type. That's just me.

For example, I'll share an experience when I was relaxed which I consider type 4 hair that's altered to be type 1. When my relaxed hair was wet, it would not be completely straight and not as long as it would be if it was dry.

I think a better way to look at it is curlier hair types shrink up more than straighter hair types.

 

[Poohbear]

You had shrinkage because your roots were not a 1 (neither is your relaxed hair either; relaxed hair is hair where the curl or kink is relaxed and not really completely straightened, usu another method is used/needed to make the hair completely straight and even when your hair is straight it's not a 1). Anyone who is relaxed can have shrinkage, and any hairtype that is not completely straight will have some shrinkage versus their straightened hair.

It depends on how straight you allow the relaxer to straighten your hair. When my mom used to relax my hair, it was bone straight. You're right about something else needed to make your hair completely straight. Take a white person with type 1 hair for example, they would still need to use a blowdryer or flat iron to get their hair completely straight too. Their hair doesn't just dry bone straight. It still has bends/slight waves in it if they let it airdry.

I was just using my experience an example for straight hair not shrinking as much as natural curly/nappy hair. The main point I wanted to make is that curlier hair types have more shrinkage than straighter ones when its wet.

 

[MeccaMedinah]

I have another question. Anyone can answer this but do you think shrinkage is only a type 4 characteristic?

No. My daughter and brother are type 3 and they both have shrinkage.

 

[qtgirl]

No, someone who is really a type 1, would need nothing else to make their hair straight. Most white people with "straight" hair use a blowdryer or flatiron, either to make their hair shinier, to make the cuticles lay flatter which get roughed up due to bad hair techniques, or they don't really have straight hair but some type of wave in it. I forgot the stats, but a LARGE pop. has some type of wave or curl in their hair. Case in point, I work with a Chinese male his hair is completely straight when wet, when dry, whenever and it would be hard for him to put some curl in it (as it usu. stands with straight hair).

It depends on how straight you allow the relaxer to straighten your hair. When my mom used to relax my hair, it was bone straight. You're right about something else needed to make your hair completely straight. Take a white person with type 1 hair for example, they would still need to use a blowdryer or flat iron to get their hair completely straight too. Their hair doesn't just dry bone straight. It still has bends/slight waves in it if they let it airdry.
I was just using my experience an example for straight hair not shrinking as much as natural curly/nappy hair. The main point I wanted to make is that curlier hair types have more shrinkage than straighter ones when its wet.

 

[Tru_Mind]

You can think of it any way you want, but type 1 is straight whether a, b, or c. You are inventing your own hairtyping range, not what Andre has stated in his book and not what NC.com has or the LOIS system. If this is what the 1 range is to you, that's fine, I'd just put that caveat in any communique I would write that states hairtype, since these other guides are the main internet hair forum standards for the definition of hairtypes.

I agree qtgirl!

[size=+1]Type 1a, 1b, and 1c is straight hair.

Type 1a: tends to be fine and thin and supersoft, with a high-octane shine. It is difficult to get this hair to do what you want.

Type 1b: is medium-textured with a lot of body. Like a body wave(not wavy hair).

Type 1c: hair is the most resistant to curling or shaping. Coarse hair.[/size]

 

[Poohbear]

No, someone who is really a type 1, would need nothing else to make their hair straight. Most white people with "straight" hair use a blowdryer or flatiron, either to make their hair shinier, to make the cuticles lay flatter which get roughed up due to bad hair techniques, or they don't really have straight hair but some type of wave in it. I forgot the stats, but a LARGE pop. has some type of wave or curl in their hair. Case in point, I work with a Chinese male his hair is completely straight when wet, when dry, whenever and it would be hard for him to put some curl in it (as it usu. stands with straight hair).

Oh okay. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience about the Chinese male. That opened my eyes to truly Type 1 hair.

 

[qtgirl]

Yes, he is a 1c, Type 1c: hair is the most resistant to curling or shaping. Coarse hair.

It is long, past bs length and very straight, he puts it in a ponytail most days, it is also very thick and resistant to styling. It's probably about 2 inches in diameter when he puts it in the ponytail.

Oh okay. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience about the Chinese male. That opened my eyes to truly Type 1 hair.

 

[senimoni]

You can think of it any way you want, but type 1 is straight whether a, b, or c. You are inventing your own hairtyping range, not what Andre has stated in his book and not what NC.com has or the LOIS system. If this is what the 1 range is to you, that's fine, I'd just put that caveat in any communique I would write that states hairtype, since these other guides are the main internet hair forum standards for the definition of hairtypes.

Thanks for clarifying b/c that is how I understood it too.

 

[Tai]

[size=+1]I agree Tai...with everything that you've said! I don't see what's so hard about hair typing either. I think that some fail to realize that even though your hair is a 3b, 4a, or 4b, each and every 3b, 4a, and 4b is not going to look exactly alike. This hair typing system that Andre created focus mainly on curl pattern not texture. Therefore, each sub-category have different textures.

Really, one picture can never completely describe each sub-category...and that's when the confusion sets in. People notice that their hair does not look like that picture. I'm 3b according to Andre's definition which is "hair with a medium amount of curl, ranging from bouncy ringlets to tight corkscrews." He also said that, "curly hair consists of a combination of textures"...no curly head will have the same combo of textures. What Tai said about 3b is right too. My hair does not look like that 3b pic above...although that 3b pic is one type of 3b look. IMO, that pic is more 3a/b than just 3b. All 3b's don't look like that. Also, all 4a's don't look like 4a pic...etc.

When the 3c sub-category was added the "tight corkscrews" from Andre's 3b definintion was pulled away into it's own category. This lead to some confusion too. However, I still understand it...it just makes me a 3b/c...that's all.

So, according to Andre's definintion since 3c is not included into Andre's type 3 sub-category Amel and Rachel will be 3b...but since 3c has been added and it’s a sub-category they have been pulled into the 3c, because of their tight corkscrews. When I view those pics of Amel and Rachel I see 3b/c...not just 3c. Also, Amel changes the look/texture of her hair often...so does Rachel.

Peachtree, Flowerhair, Hairlove, Tai, and Kha, have 3b hair according to Andre’ definition…which is “medium amount of curl, ranging from bouncy ringlets to tight corkscrews.” All four of the ladies have different and similar combinations of hair textures. All have different textures and curl patterns in different sections. However, since 3c has been added they are 3b/c, because they have tight corkscrews or like Tai said “curls the size of curls that are the size of a coffee stirrer to a pencil.” IMO, Andre’s 3b definition is a complete definition and completely describes all four of the ladies hair, because he does includes their tight corkscrews/3c hair.

Yes, some people that have mostly 2a, 2b, 2c, 3b, 3c, 4a, or 4b can have any one/or more of these hair types on one head due to genetics. A family friend has mostly type 2 hair, and in the upper right section she has a large patch of type 4a. It's very obvious, because the the 2 textures are so different, and the 4a section is much thicker than the rest.

This is where it gets confusing to some. Yes, type 4a’s definition is very similar to 3b...or 3c...or 3b/c. However, IMO, 3c hair has come to be 4a hair and 4a has come to be 3c. Tai defined type 4a very well, and in more detail than Andre. Tai stated, “If you have defined curls that are very small and tend to lose that definition when they dry and have a lot of shrinkage in it's natural state, it's a 4a. If there's no curl definition or it's very minimal and there's also high shrinkage, it's a 4b. If your hair looks curlier wet than dry and shrinks up more once dry, you're a type 4.” Andre’s definition is, “tightly coiled hair that, when stretch has an “S” pattern, much like curly hair…the same as Tai’s definition, but Tai's definition is detailed.

Hey, if you need me to help you type your hair I can help…but if you’re are relaxed you have to have good amount of new growth.

I plan on eventually doing a thread like Ms Kenesha did since Hairlove's ablum is closed. I plan on using more the one head of hair for each sub-catergory. I will included type 3c. IMO, Ayeshia, and DreamyPisces are excellent definitions of 3c hair. Their hair can look like 3b and 4a at times, therefore their hair type is smack in between...which is 3c.[/size]

Thank you, tru_mind. I was starting to think that my post was in vain. You're sweet to volunteer to help people type their hair. I used to do that, too, until people started getting mad at me because I told them what they didn't want to hear. Black women can be very sensitive about their hair type.

 

[kristina]

I think those pics are very helpful, but the whole hair typing thing is still confusing because unless we can see/comb another person's hair in all its different stages (washed, dried, no products, with products) it's still just guesswork.

So I'm not gonna "type" my hair anymore. I just know it's hell to comb if I wash it and let it dry without any conditioner in it

I agree that typing is confusing for the reasons stated. I'm guess I'm 3c/4a since there's nothing even close to J.Lo's medium 3b curls on my head. Being able to recognize the bright line distinctions (type 1 versus a type 4) is easy but distinguishing between a 3c and a 4a or a 4b for me is still difficult because each person's hair is so unique. I also think it has to do with when you see the hair as Nay indicated. I think that hair that is prone to frizz doesn't mean that you don't have curls- we tend to associate curl definition with hair type but curl definition does have much to do with curl size IMO (if that makes sense.
The only conclusion I've made is that I have cottony, fine stranded hair that when wet, has corkscrews of various sizes, is very prone to frizziness and dryness, shrinks a bit and does not have the shiny wet look without products when dry.
OT- What's up with the hair typing bonanza on the board???

 

[Ayeshia]

"I plan on eventually doing a thread like Ms Kenesha did since Hairlove's ablum is closed. I plan on using more the one head of hair for each sub-catergory. I will included type 3c. IMO, Ayeshia, and DreamyPisces are excellent definitions of 3c hair. Their hair can look like 3b and 4a at times, therefore their hair type is smack in between...which is 3c."

wow tru_mind you described my hair to the T.

3b "looking" right here

Looking like a 4a in this pic (sorry so big)

 

[Tru_Mind]

PB, I think Andre threw some of us off when he said that "relaxed type 4's should follow the same haircut guiedlines as Type 1.

Type 1 hair is more oily that dry, and because it has mor cuticle layers that any other type, i't almost impossible to damage.

Yes, some people do relax their hair bone straight, but what about the new growth?Relaxed hair, because of the new growth the curls or coil prevent natural oils from the scalp from distruting evenly thoughout the hair. Relaxed curly or coily hair can never be like type 1, because it will be drier...because of the new growth. Only straight hair oils can evenly distribute thoughout the hair.

 

[Tru_Mind]

I agree that typing is confusing for the reasons stated. I'm guess I'm 3c/4a since there's nothing even close to J.Lo's medium 3b curls on my head. Being able to recognize the bright line distinctions (type 1 versus a type 4) is easy but distinguishing between a 3c and a 4a or a 4b for me is still difficult because each person's hair is so unique. I also think it has to do with when you see the hair as Nay indicated. I think that hair that is prone to frizz doesn't mean that you don't have curls- we tend to associate curl definition with hair type but curl definition does have much to do with curl size IMO (if that makes sense.
The only conclusion I've made is that I have cottony, fine stranded hair that when wet, has corkscrews of various sizes, is very prone to frizziness and dryness, shrinks a bit and does not have the shiny wet look without products when dry.
OT- What's up with the hair typing bonanza on the board???

That pic of J.Lo is not J. Lo's natural hair. It was manipulated to look kinda like Jennifer Beals' mane. I'm sure that Froxybronx was just trying to find an example. That is an example of 3 a/b hair...IMO.

 

[Tru_Mind]

"I plan on eventually doing a thread like Ms Kenesha did since Hairlove's ablum is closed. I plan on using more than one head of hair for each sub-catergory. I will included type 3c. IMO, Ayeshia, and DreamyPisces are excellent definitions of 3c hair. Their hair can look like 3b and 4a at times, therefore their hair type is smack in between...which is 3c."

wow tru_mind you described my hair to the T.

3b "looking" right here

Looking like a 4a in this pic (sorry so big)

Thanks Ayeshia! Yep, I will be using yours and DreamPisces hair album to represent type 3c(not sure who else) when I decide to do a hair typing thread using hair albums. I really want to use more than 2 albums...preferably 4 albums for each sub-category. Not anytime soon, because I want to really get it together, so that I can put an end to this confusion.

 

[kristina]

That pic of J.Lo is not J. Lo's natural hair. It was manipulated to look kinda like Jennifer Beals' mane. I'm sure that Froxybronx was just trying to find an example. That is an example of 3 a/b hair...IMO.

Oh, okay- thanks for the clarification. I think you and Tai should be LHCF's resident hair typing gurus.

 

[Porsche19]

One question for qtgirl.

What hair type would one who has straight hair with very loose waves be under, according to any system. Waves that are too loose to be called 2a??

Imo, there is an in between stage between straight and wavy hair, just as there is betwwen curly and kinky hair. Is that not quite straight, not quite wavy hair type just not defined?

 

[Porsche19]

Also, why is type one hair separated by level of coarseness instead of by amount of wave/curl/texture like all other types?

 

[Tai]

One question for qtgirl.

What hair type would one who has straight hair with very loose waves be under, according to any system. Waves that are too loose to be called 2a??

Imo, there is an in between stage between straight and wavy hair, just as there is betwwen curly and kinky hair. Is that not quite straight, not quite wavy hair type just not defined?

I'm not qtgirl but I'll answer.

The hair type you described is a 2a. 2a hair barely has any waves to it. It's almost straight.
The A distinction for the different hair types, especially type 2 and 3, describes the in between types for that hair. It's just barely fitting into that category.
As it's been mentioned, not everyone's hair is going to fit perfectly into any hair typing system. But you can look at the majority of your hair and figure out where your hair falls. Therefore, if you hair is almost straight but has a slight wave, you're a 2a. If your hair is almost wavy but has some slight curls, you're a 3a.
I really think that we make this hair typing thing so much harder than it really is.

 

[Tai]

That type is type 1 because they don't have any wave or curl pattern to distinquish one type from another. The coarseness of the hair is their texture.

I think this board needs to invite Andre here to explain the hair types.

Also, why is type one hair separated by level of coarseness instead of by amount of wave/curl/texture like all other types?

 

[Tru_Mind]

Also, why is type one hair separated by level of coarseness instead of by amount of wave/curl/texture like all other types?

Hmmm...good question Porshe! I think that's it's because type 1 hair is completely straight and the only thing that does distinguish type 1's from other 1's is the texture which is fine, medium, and course (1a, 1b, and 1c).

Now, when it comes to type 2, 3 and 4 hair it's a different story. I believe that 2a should have sub-categories, 2b should have sub-categories 2c should have sub-categories , 3a should have sub-categories, 3b should have sub- categories, 4a should have sub- categories, and 4b should have sub- categories. So, that no one will be confused.

Type 2-4 definitions are board. I think that was Andre's way of trying to make hair typing simiple...but it kinda back-fired. Some people just have to have their own definition for their hair in order to relate.

I think that Andre’s main reason for typing hair was to end the “good hair” and “bad hair” saying. Typing… IMO, is a more educated way of viewing your hair and others hair. Being able to type your hair is saying that you know what your hair does, what products you can or can’t use, how often to wash, etc. Which puts your hair in better condition. I believe that’s why we type our hair on this forum it helps us relate better to one another’s hair in order to figure out what’s best for our hair. Type 3 and 4 hair relates a lot, therefore, it is very common to see type 3 and 4’s using the same products and the exact or similar regimes. Type 3 and 4’s have the same and/or similar problems.

 

[TigerLily]

I may be wrong, but I think the confusion comes in because some people just really do not want the hair type they have on their heads. Whatever it is, it is WHAT it is....

Like I said, I could be wrong?.....

 

[Tai]

I may be wrong, but I think the confusion comes in because some people just really do not want the hair type they have on their heads. Whatever it is, it is WHAT it is....

Like I said, I could be wrong?.....

You hit the nail on the head with that one, TigerLily. I do think some folks may be honestly confused but I think a lot of people just aren't that content with what God gave them so they try to convince themselves that what they have is something else that only they can see.

 

[Tru_Mind]

I may be wrong, but I think the confusion comes in because some people just really do not want the hair type they have on their heads. Whatever it is, it is WHAT it is....

Like I said, I could be wrong?.....

Thanks TigerLily! I feel the same way...hair typing is not confusing. I just finished saying what you said to myself a few minutes ago just before I read your post. Your hair type is what it is, and what type it is it will always be, and you can't change it, so you should accept it. IMO, hair typing was created to help not hurt.

 

[qtgirl]

I agree, I think the problem is that the good hair/bad hair dichotomy came first and is still in ppl's minds, maybe in the back of their minds, but in their minds all the same.

I think that Andre’s main reason for typing hair was to end the “good hair” and “bad hair” saying. Typing… IMO, is a more educated way of viewing your hair and others hair. Being able to type your hair is saying that you know what your hair does, what products you can or can’t use, how often to wash, etc. Which puts your hair in better condition. I believe that’s why we type our hair on this forum it helps us relate better to one another’s hair in order to figure out what’s best for our hair. Type 3 and 4 hair relates a lot, therefore, it is very common to see type 3 and 4’s using the same products and the exact or similar regimes. Type 3 and 4’s have the same and/or similar problems.

 

[baglady215]

I think hair typing is very beneficial. I find that a lot of the products that work for other 4b ladies work for me. Very good thread!